Escaping the Missionary Productivity Trap with Amy Young

Do you ever feel like you’re running hard in ministry but still falling behind? Missionary life can be an endless swirl of urgent needs, unfinished to-do lists, and pressure to prove your worth through results.

In this episode, Amy Young of Global Trellis helps unpack the hidden productivity trap that drains your energy—and the surprising shift that frees you to focus on what truly matters.

Discover how to spot “fake wins,” embrace slow productivity, and protect your calling from burnout so you can finish well in the work God’s given you.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

• The subtle signs you’re stuck in a productivity trap without realizing it
• How to tell the difference between urgent and truly important work in missions
• Why pseudo productivity can leave you drained but not effective
• Practical ways to slow down without losing momentum in your ministry
• How to align your daily actions with your long-term calling

Hey missionaries—how are your finances on the field? At Modern Day Missions, we make it simple for missionaries to receive donations and for donors to give. Serving 1,100+ missionaries worldwide, we free you to focus on your calling. We also offer resources like our weekly podcast, fundraising coaching, and a resource-packed newsletter. Connect with us at modernday.org

Thanks for listening! Email us your questions at care@modernday.org

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Chapters

• 0:40 The Missionary Productivity Trap
• 1:29 Urgent vs. Important: A Missionary's Dilemma
• 5:18 Exploring Slow Productivity
• 9:06 Pseudo Productivity and Real Accomplishments
• 12:40 Balancing Tasks and Purpose
• 15:34 Long-term Perspective in Ministry
• 27:13 Consistency with Values in Crisis
• 28:30 Reflecting on Values and Productivity
• 29:55 Balancing Life's Demands
• 33:06 The Importance of Deep Work
• 35:31 Navigating Personal and Professional Life
• 40:32 Faithful Productivity in Different Seasons
• 46:19 Engaging with Global Trellis
• 49:20 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Stephanie Gutierrez: Welcome to this episode of the Modern Day Missionaries podcast. Today we're back with one of your favorite guests and mine, Amy Young. And if you have not had the pleasure of hearing Amy before, you are in for a treat. She is so energetic and enthusiastic about everything that she shares. Amy is a counselor, she was a missionary in China for 20 years, and she's the founder of Global Trellis, which is a beautiful online community that helps missionaries grow in their skills and tend to their souls. She's outstanding, has a podcast of her own, and you are gonna love the conversation today.

So, on our topic today, which is about slow productivity, and what does productivity mean as a missionary? And like, did I get anything done today? And how do I know if I was doing what I was supposed to be doing? We go into all the really heavy questions that we ask ourselves as missionaries, as we try and walk out what God's given us to do. 

So, with no further ado, we're gonna jump right into today's conversation with Amy Young. Hey Amy. It's so good to have you back on the podcast.

Amy Young: Stephanie, it's so good to be here. I just love being with you and being with the Modern Day Missions podcast family.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Same. We have altogether too much fun when you put us in the same room or even on the same screen, so gonna happen again today. I already know it. 

And today we're talking productivity for missionaries. What does that feel like? What does that look like? How do we measure it? What are the ways we feel and react even to that word?

And so I just wanna kick it off from the get go, Amy, in a world that is obsessed with results and output, what happens when your most important work can't be measured in numbers?

Amy Young: That is what has been like the burning question, probably in my soul since I was 20, around that age. I read this article called The Tyranny of the Urgent, and probably a lot of your listeners are familiar with it. It turns out it's also now a book you can go and get from Ivy Press. I found it in the library, but the phrase used there was the tyranny of the urgent versus the tyranny of the important, and basically, if we're not rooted in Christ, the urgent is always gonna pull us away from the important. 

And I think that phrase just touched something in me because I understood past tense and present tense, the temptation. The urgency is loud, and if I'm not careful, the example the author used was of Jesus, and I will always remember talking about how Jesus could have healed even more people could have, you know, healed more physical illnesses, emotional blindness, lameness. There were relationships to be healed, like there wasn't a lack of work. He knew what was important to do, what the Father had asked him to do. 

I also think productivity isn't bad. God was productive. You look at what God made, and one of the first titles given to him is Creator, the creator, and the maker. And so, just that tension, that productivity is not bad. Like everything else, it can be twisted and broken, and we can get sucked into the urgent. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: That's so well said, and I love your distinction between urgent and important. It makes me think of Stephen Covey, the quadrants where he distinguishes the urgent and important, and yeah, just that driving task master nature of the urgent. And there are genuinely things in life that are urgent, the era of life where you find urgent and important. Where it's just broken their leg, like you gotta do something when there's an actual emergency. But when we treat all of life as if it's an emergency, it can be utterly draining. And then we miss out on the hidden, important things in life. We see the obvious ones that are mixed with urgency. The important things, like you mentioned, Jesus would get away and have those quiet times, what was more important than spending time with God? It was sometimes even saying no to the urgent. 

You know the thing I've always said to Danny when we would get in kind of our frenetic pace. When we were in Peru, I still felt that creeping up. I would always say even a surgeon has to put down his scalpel, or he's going to kill someone. That's kind of our phrase we always go back to. So it is such a good distinction. 

I love even for our listeners as they're listening to what you have to say, just thinking about, okay, what in life is urgent and what in life is important, and what is maybe both?

I wanted to ask you, Amy, what kind of first stirred your desire to even talk about this idea of productivity?

Amy Young:  So what got me thinking about this, as you know, is the book Slow Productivity by Cal Newport on the lost art of accomplishment without burnout, and really, as I read this, on the cover flap, he says, our current definition of productivity is broken. It pushes us to treat busyness as a proxy for useful effort. And it was that whole idea of how often people say, like, I'm so busy. I'm so busy, and I think deep in our souls, we know that not everything we're doing is productive, but we don't know how to stop being busy, because then does that mean we're not productive? And so this whole idea is also on the cover, you know, he said, it's our choice between hustle culture or rejecting ambition altogether. 

And in my notes, I wrote that's a false choice. And even when I read that, I was like, oh my gosh, the accuser of our soul. If our choice is I've got a hustle, hustle, hustle, or have no ambition, I'm a person of a lot of ambition, and I know you are too, Stephanie, and I know our listeners are too. Stay-at-home moms, dads, men, and women, like this, are not gender specific. I don't even think it's a stage of life specific. I think there's something that stirs in all of us, again, made in the image of God, to be productive.

To be contributing, to be a part of something, and to be productive means we are communal. The triune God works together.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Every missionary is on the field because they felt called to go and serve in another country. They went because they felt a pull to accomplish something, to do something for the Lord.

Amy Young: Yes. And so I've thought what a false dichotomy that either we hustle or we reject ambition. And so I just think this is a lifelong wrestle for me, or a question of how do I stay focused on what's important, not get sucked into what's urgent? But when I read this book, Slow Productivity, Cal Newport wrote it for people who are in knowledge work.

So he is like, this isn't a book necessarily for everyone, because if you are doing something with your hands, you're a carpenter, you can see I made the table, I fulfilled that order, and I shipped it. But for a lot of us in ministry, it is more knowledge work. It's not where there's a clear output, and I can remember multiple days coming to the end of the day, and I would think, what did I do today? And then that led me to feel unproductive. Unlike that was a waste of a day, where honestly, I think it's that my definition, the truthfully, there were some days that I did like, what was that about?

Stephanie Gutierrez: Hey, you're human. 

Amy Young: I know. Yes. But I think this is why I come back to it again and again, because the Lord wants me to have the right idea of productivity, like how he defines it. And so it's always trying to have God's idea of productivity, bringing myself back to the North Star because I am prone to wander. And in this book, Cal Newport, and this was the phrase that I loved, and I instantly texted a friend in ministry, and I'm like, you have to get this book, and we have to discuss it because Cal Newport uses the phrase pseudo-productivity. It was so accurate that to feel productive, sometimes we will do pseudo-productive things, and that's why I was like, okay, Lord, I don't want to just do pseudo-productive things, so I feel good about myself.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Well, in Stephen Covey's going back to his quadrants, pseudo-productive would be urgent but not important. So if we think about those co-quadrants, again, it seems so urgent, like, we should do this. Like, I have to reorganize my sock drawer right now because it will just give me this sense of like, accomplishment. And there's nothing wrong with organizing your stock drawer or your Tupperware drawer or whatever your weird little quirk is. That's fine, when there's time. But if we're running around chasing those pseudo-productive things instead of the actual purpose, what we're supposed to do for that day, those are the things that just eat us alive. Like all with all these little bites, and suddenly our day is gone, and what is it that we have? Done. And that's not just tasks around the house. Those are easy to think of because they're tactile. 

I would ask you, then, Amy, what might be some pseudo-productive things that you or you've seen other missionaries get trapped or caught up in?

Amy Young: Well, one of the things, and again, Cal Newport had this idea, but I've been marinating in it. He talked about how things like email, if we step back, email itself isn't that productive. It’s not bad, but it's helped me to go, okay, thinking bigger picture than just maybe beyond a day or something. What are some of the larger things that I am involved in?

Stephanie Gutierrez: That's such a good one. I remember two things he said that caught my attention. One, he brought up this example of this guy who doesn't like to respond to emails, like he just doesn't respond to the majority of them. And I'm like, that seems so rude to me. But like, I get his reasoning. He's like I don't need to respond to phishing emails. I mean, I can get like a phishing email from like some random person on LinkedIn who's like trying to get me to buy into their coaching network to train me how to be a better coach. And I will feel the need to be like, oh, thank you so much for thinking of me, but I am not currently interested.

Well, according to Cal Newport, like, don't even, just don't respond to that. I have one of those sitting in my email inbox right now, and I am nice Amy, and I'm just being real. I wanna answer that. And I deleted the last one, and this person wrote me again, and I wanna respond: I'm not gonna do it. Do you know what? I'm just gonna come into it right now. I'm gonna delete it. Okay. That felt refreshing.  

And then there was another one, he said, but I don't remember what it was because I just felt like I got free. I'll think of it later.

Amy Young: Okay. Well, but I would encourage our leaders, our listeners, to think about like what makes you feel productive. How, then, do we move towards slow productivity? And that phrase, slow productivity came out of a response to the idea of fast food and out of fast food. Someone's like, no, we need slow food. And I think of missionaries on the field, I think of you all having different things pulling at you. You do have your ministry, you probably have family members at a distance, so you've also got family responsibilities that are pulling at you. You've got communicating with supporters, you've got sending agencies, so there are lots of things pulling at you. And so, how do we just kind of slow all of that down so that you are productive, you are working on the ministry, the mission that God has called you into?

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yes, with that sense of purpose where you get to the end of the day and you think, today I did what matters, which doesn't mean that we don't do some of these other tasks in life, and we could just be, you know, and think I'm only living for purpose. Well, you need to clean your toilet. And, you know, if your neighbor stops by and says hi, you should say hi to them. I mean, there are things you need to do in life. You can't just walk around on a cloud. So say more about that. 

How can people determine, maybe when a task is busy work and when it is a slow productivity thing that gives them a sense of purpose?

Amy Young: Well, and what I did love about this book and just this idea, as I've been marinating in it, is that he is not anti-little tasks. He's like, Hey, you know what? You do need to go buy groceries, cook and do laundry, make budgets, and all of the things that are just a part of life. The point he made was that some of those little tasks, if we're not careful, he called them termites, and how the termites just can kind of eat away. And I think that is where I also love how Jesus modeled. He ate meals with people. I mean, he did normal human things. He wore clothing, so obviously that was washed or made. And again, maybe it's the women in his life doing it, but in reality, it's not being like just anti-little tasks. It's helped m,e though to go, if I could intentionally be like 50% of my time is invested in slow productivity and then 50% is in these tasks and other things that are not the slow productivity.

I think what led him, Cal, to be interested in this idea, and I think you and I have probably thought this, Stephanie, and I think our listeners have too. He heard this story of this writer who lay on a picnic bench looking up at the trees and the birds, and Cal was basically like, Oh, wouldn't it be nice to have a job like that where you didn't have to worry about being productive? So if you look at someone else and you're like, oh, wouldn't their job be nice? The thing is, when Cal was able to step back, he was like, you know what? That author is productive. They wrote several significant books that then got either moving stories out there or ideas right away. If Cal himself hadn't been productive, I wouldn't have read this book, Slow Productivity, and be talking about it.

If Stephen Covey hadn't had time to marinate ideas and get them clear so he could present the four quadrants, even though Stephen Covey has been dead for many years, here we are in the year of our Lord 2025 and you're referencing them, and it's made a difference in your life and my life and this discussion.

And so Cal was just saying, we need more marinating time. We need more time. That while we are doing I'm trying to think of different listeners and different things. They might be involved in Bible translation or working with children, working with trafficking in education or medicine, or all of these different ways. There are things in our education, homeschooling children, educating children, and keeping a home, that you're like, okay, this is like the small picture, but this is the big picture. What would I like my child to be like in five years? What do I hope has been fostered in their character? Or, okay, we're in a broken medical system. Like, what would help? 

So again, maybe having a few meetings, a few brainstorming ideas, oh, we need a better note-taking system. How then can we say, all right, within two years, we need a very different system in place? So it's not next week. We're changing absolutely everything, but it is that, you know what, in two years, this can look different.

Stephanie Gutierrez: It can. And so, what you're saying is, is having this long-term perspective, just this short-term getting through the day, and this is significant. I think this is a mindset switch because for so many of us, we've lived or are living in cultures where it is naturally slower, and we know that we have listeners who are not just Americans, but from all over the world.

So if you're an American and you're listening to this, you might think, well, that's kind of how I live naturally as well. But there is this American mindset of this fast pace, like you said, and it can be jarring when we come in with that mindset into a culture that does not live that way.  So for us, it's not only fitting in with the culture and adapting to the culture, but also what God can do in us through that exposure to the other culture, too. Because it's really, it's just not a great way to live, that frenetic pace that we're talking about. 

And you know, it's so interesting listening to too, Amy, because I know that you and I are both, and I have this, I don't know if I've mentioned this in the podcast, maybe I have, I have ADHD quite strongly. But I have this slow soul, so don't hate me if you don't like the Enneagram. I'm a nine, Amy's a three, if that says doesn’t say anything to you, don't hang with us, okay. But Amy's wired naturally to go fast. I am wired naturally in my soul to go slow, but I have a very fast ADHD brain, and I like to live in that three-space a lot. I've got a connection to three, if you look at either of those, it reminds me of that tension that you brought up earlier, Amy, where you said it's this false dichotomy, this choice between this like do nothing or this like crazy fast ambition. 

Interestingly, if you look at the Enneagram, which isn't just a personality assessment. Okay, if you've got a kind of a slow soul like me and you're a nine, if you are living in a place of unhealth, in that you will be just sluggish and not doing much, and in that unhealthy place. But if you're in an unhealthy place like where Amy's at in a three, you're gonna be achieving and trying to do everything and never be able to stop. And you've gotta do more and you gotta do more. And so in either of those places of unhealth, that is where you get to that unhealthy choice. 

And so it's like, how can I be just a healthier person in general by slowing down, not slowing down and being afraid of where that might take me and not slowing down and being afraid of what that might not let me do, but like finding this stillness in your soul so that God can help you know when you need to move quickly. And when you need to, to slow down, but it's a war. It's like a war that sometimes goes on the inside. My soul is slowing down, and my brain is like, but we need to go faster. 

Amy, say a little bit about what that looks like for you in the type of personality that you have.

Amy Young: Well, even as you're talking, I would say also for me, what kind of gets at play is the work. So I was in Asia as an English teacher, but it was a very relational ministry. So we also did have the ministry side, where we certainly didn't wanna be using our students. We had adult students, but to create space for meaningful conversations as life happened in tragedy, you know, just to meet them with the good news of the gospel of the difference Jesus can make. And I would find that I could be really satisfied in quote unquote my job as a teacher, because I could measure the productivity of that. I did have more control over good lesson plans and creating good exams, and getting my grades in on time.

Part of it even slipped back a little bit to what you said earlier, Stephanie, about like the mindset I came in with, because God had called me, and all of the missionary biographies I had read, their ministries were off the chart. So I thought if there were gonna be loads of people coming to the Lord, you know, I thought I knew what we were gonna be doing, and that it was just not the case. And so it's that tension of also, this is where it isn't a vending machine, certain things in ministry. And so, really having to let the Lord define what I was productive.

I mean, this is a question. Linking productivity to faithfulness and going okay, in a day, if someone stopped by and I was able to, did I have space to have a conversation if someone wanted to, whatever, come over and bake banana bread? Was I faithful in getting the bananas banana spending time with them, because, and I think that's why this whole idea of even slow productivity is important. 

A knowledge based job or a ministry based job where you can get also be thinking of supporters who want to hear stories and want to know what you're doing, which isn't bad, and we all want to be encouraged by what God is doing, sometimes in a given month, it doesn't look like God is doing that much. Often. If I were to look day to day, I can feel like, quote unquote, honestly, nothing is getting done. If I look at a week. I look back, and I feel a little bit better. Okay. I can see that over this week, the needle did move. If I look at a month and I have started a practice of, at the end of every month, so we're, this is the last date, we're recording this on the last day of the month. I will pull out my calendar. I've got this notebook, and it's just a regular notebook; it's a small notebook. And at the beginning of the year, I will take the last 12 pages. I write in January, February, March, April, and May. I write every day, and then I will just make a one-page summary of that month.

So it's not like I'm not a massive journaler or that, that that doesn't work for me. For other people, journaling would work, but this has been so good for my soul to say on any one day, nothing's happening. But look at the end of a month and see that his project did move forward, or something we'd been working on, like a ministry event. Oh, it did happen. And look at what happened in that ministry event or relationally. So the left-hand column is more work, and the right-hand column for me is relational stuff. So just to be like, ah, because I do want to be an integrated person, where relationships and people that matter to me are also represented in how I'm investing my time and projects that I'm working on are moving forward.

So when we were talking about this, as I said, I am not just curious about the final cake that's made, but I'm also drawn to the making of the cake, and what does that look like when the cake is not yet made, so you can feel like I haven't been productive. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Okay, so we were to, again, just kind of continue to shift our mindset on this. So if we stop asking the question, you know, what did I accomplish today? Or what did I accomplish this week? What might be some better questions we could ask instead?

Amy Young: You know, about a year ago at this time, my mom had a real serious break in her leg, and instantly I'm thinking of, also for those of you, where suddenly there is a huge crisis event that changes what your daily life looks like. And I have to say, there was a lot of sitting around, a lot of spending time in hospitals, in rehab, in all of these things. And I would come to the end of the day, and I would feel like, oh my goodness, I didn't get my work done. I didn't understand that the Lord knew what was gonna come, and I was exactly where I needed to be. And I realized if I kept asking myself, What did you do today? I was asking the wrong question. And thankfully, God was like, What's a better question in this season right now? And the question that helped me in that season was, Was I consistent with my values today? That's where I was like, okay, one of my values is when a person I love is in crisis that I show up. So I'm like, okay, massive points there, Amy. You get all the points. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. You know, was I patient when I felt like a doctor wasn't answering the question and I had to keep asking it? Yes. Okay. So, I think asking better questions than just, What did I do? Was I consistent with my values today? That has been helpful for me.

When I do realize I'm drawn to even the idea of pseudo productivity is visible, and sometimes we're involved with invisible things.

Stephanie Gutierrez: That's the truth.

Amy Young: It's just right. It is just the truth. On any one day, it looked like my mom was making no progress, and we were going to be sort of stuck in this limbo phase. So again, thinking of parents with young kids, thinking of parents with special needs kids, thinking of someone who is single and wants to be married. You can be like, I am not making any progress towards this goal of my child feeding themselves independently. I don't want to read that book one more time to this person, or I really wanna be married, and there's just certain things we don't control, quote unquote, the productivity of it. But we can show up faithfully and do our part. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: I love that question. You asking about how I live in line with my values is such a great question, and it just causes you to look a little deeper than the surface. I mean, there's the whole doing, thinking, being, and I think for those of you listeners who find themselves busy in the doing. And it's always, What did I do? What did I do? What did I do? What a wonderful way to look at something that was some doing. 

But living in line with your values, it's a deeper question. It goes into not what, but how do I do what I do? You know, a question we ask every night at dinner is, what is one thing you did to make the world a more beautiful place? And sometimes, in our house, it is these really big, obvious, evident things. You know, like yesterday I was going for a walk in the neighborhood after lunch real quick, and it was gonna be a 15-minute, you know, power walk just to kinda wake me up and get to be outside. And the neighbor's mom passed away, and I said How are you doing? And she goes, okay. And I thought, oh, there's something there. And she's like, My mom just died. And so we spent the majority of the walk time there. And so that was an easy, evident one. Like I got to listen. 

Then there are other ones, like today, my special needs daughter is home from her day program because she's not feeling well. And so I just canceled some meetings, and it's just been sitting with her and listening to her talk about some things that are bothering her. It doesn't feel as productive. I can be like, I listened to a neighbor talk about her grief that was solid and productive, and sometimes it feels like more valid when we're helping adults, which is ridiculous than when it's our children.

Amy Young: Or I was gonna say, even someone not in our family. It was a neighbor, so somehow it felt more valid than your daughter or a niece or, yeah. Someone in your own family.

Stephanie Gutierrez: You're exactly right, because sometimes at dinner when we ask the question, like, usually Danny does the cooking at our house, because he's phenomenal at it. And so like, you know, sometimes I'll look at him and be like, I know one thing you did. I mean, you did other things too, but you made dinner, and it's so good. So there are things like that. But the values are so cool, Amy, because again, we're looking at the, How did I do what I did? Because even if we're doing something nice, how did I do that?

Amy Young: Well, and I have to say, honestly, I think the Holy Spirit gave me that question because it was so freeing. It was so freeing. Because then I was like, I did show up consistent with my values. And even though on the surface it looked like I, to me, and again, I think anybody else on the outside of me would've said, oh, that was important, but I didn't feel it was as productive as if I had done X, Y, or Z or, you know, recorded a podcast or done this or done that.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Right. Where's the box to check?

Amy Young: Right. Right, which, that's where I realized how deeply this idea of productivity is defined too narrowly on this day or this, because one of the things Cal Newport says is, look, make a five-year goal because you have dentist appointments and other things are gonna come up. And that's not bad, but to say, okay, in your ministry, I know sometimes for some of you listening, and I used to be this way, you'd roll your eyes at like the five-year goal because you're living in a context where that may not be a possibility. Who knows what the economy is gonna look like?. You're just trying to get to the end of the month.

Stephanie Gutierrez: You're like, I don't even know if my visa is gonna get renewed. 

Amy Young: Right, right. But it is also kind of freeing to say, all right, dream big with God. What could you be working on with street kids? What if you are like, within five years, you've got a program set up on Fridays that where they're gonna have food for the weekend? Or you set up a little center where they know, like just these things that make ministry. Those are productive. 

Now, you're not gonna get a whole center set up this week, but he also said that he had kind of three big points in the book. One was to do fewer things. And I think that is an invitation for many of us in cross-cultural work missions ministry. We get invited to do a lot of different things, and the needs are kind of endless. So I would even just say, I think that was one of the beautiful models of Jesus. He was clear on what it was he was invited by God to do. He was invited to heal some people, but not all. And that's freeing to me to go, I may not be able to help all people, but I can do this thing before me. And he also said, This has been very helpful to me, is we humans are overly optimistic about how long it's going to take. We think it will take less time to do something than it will take. So whatever you're thinking, double it. And that has been very helpful. And I don't often, I'll be like, oh no, no, it will actually take longer, and that has just been helpful to be, do fewer things and be realistic. It's gonna take longer to do these larger productive things that are gonna make a difference.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah, so like I think about you and me and how we're wired, we don't do so many things. How did you feel when you read those words, Amy, initially?

Amy Young: I felt sad because I love doing all the things

Stephanie Gutierrez: I wondered, like, what if life is a buffet? Can't we do all the things?

Amy Young: And yet I could also see sometimes when I try to do all the things or I say too many yeses without like slowing down and really, is this a yes that God is inviting me into when I have gotten myself too busy by saying too many yeses? Then I operate, and I'm just gonna be honest, with a low-grade resentment, and my fuse is much shorter, and I'll get annoyed with people, and again, it has nothing to do with them. It's because I overfilled my plate. And so doing fewer things and trying to be like, okay, I want to do fewer important things. Back to that tyranny of the urgent. Anything in the immediate feels so urgent, then sometimes halfway into what you do realize, actually this wasn't really what God wanted me to do, like God did not mean for me to be running around like a crazy chicken. I'm the one who set this up. Yep.

Stephanie Gutierrez: That's where we go back to values, which is up earlier, I think, and a clear sense of purpose and assignment in this particular season, you know, there's your calling for life that's in general what God's called you to do. And then there's your assignment. How has he called me to do that this season? Then there's your values. Who am I as I do this? If we don't have those things clear, we can find ourselves doing things that are not in alignment with our values, that are not in alignment with our current assignment. And that's, I think, when we began to experience that resentment that you just talked about, Amy.

Like, did I get myself into this? Well, because it sounded interesting and you were into it and it sounded fun, and why not? And let's try it. Not that there can't be any of that in life, but when it becomes a regular part of life, it takes away from who it is that God's called us to be. And Amy and I recognize those of you who are listening that there are different personalities and some of you, like me, I am, and Amy and I are people who do have our hands in multiple pots. Some people are just like, God has called me to these particular people in this particular region and to do this particular thing. Or like, I know people who are like, I wanna be an astronaut. And they were five, and now they're studying to be an astronaut. That's so cool. I always wanted that type of narrow, focused clarity, but that's not how God has wired me. And so I have my hands in a couple of pots. Amy, I know you have your hands full of pots, and it's fun, but when is too many pots?

Amy Young: Well, and I think in the book, I'd have to re-look this up, but it was sort of like if you are committed to more than, if your range is three to five, okay. But if you look at your life and you realize I've committed to more, certainly more than five, but even three, to prioritize and let people know, okay, this is on the list, but I'm not gonna get to it until May or October, or, I'm gonna work on these three projects first, which is also just, I think clarity as you're communicating with people and expectations is just helpful. And also just the reality. You probably can't do five big projects all at once.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Mm, no, we water ourselves down at that point, and end up getting resentful, like you said. So, the clearer you are on who God's made you to be, what he's called you to do in this season, I wanna say the easier it is, but the more rapidly you can discern and decide this is not it, and it's also really helpful to share with someone else. A trusted person in life who can speak the truth and love, who can look at you and say. That's a really interesting opportunity. Tell me how that fits in with this assignment. This is part of the season of your life. Tell me how that fits in with your values, not all good values that you're aware of can be your values. I might want something to be my values, so much like  I can't even think of one right now. I might want this to be a value of mine, but it's only a value if it's a natural part of you, if you live it, breathe that it's who you are.

You can't take someone's value and say, well, that's, I want that to be mine. And so what are yours? How is God unique? And how can you live into that, into what you're doing? Amy, what does faithful productivity look like for you in the season of your life?

Amy Young: I would say really it has tried kind narrow down into two big buckets, and for me right now it is things with Global Trellis, and even getting more clarity. Global Trellis has existed for about six years, and what we're being invited into now is even different. It feels like about a year ago we experienced a massive deepening, like a big shift. And so, trying to pay attention to what that means for the Global Trellis. 

Then I will also say with my family, I've got nieces that are entering young adulthood, and knowing that that can just be a challenging as you're navigating life, navigating your faith, I would love for them to stay strong in Jesus. And again, I don't control that, but I can control keeping an open relationship with them. You know, keeping communication going. And there are things that, you know, if they need prayer on something, like those are things I want to be a part of. And also, as I said, I work with an aging mom. I live with my aging mother. I am the kind of person like I can say with Global Trellis, I'll say I have in the past said yes to too many things. And so, trying to have fewer things that are in line with what it is God is inviting Global Trellis to and going a little deeper. In having deeper projects. That's what it looks like. How about you?

Stephanie Gutierrez: Well, and even before answering you, Cal Newport talks about that. I love that you mentioned going deeper right now, and for those of you who haven't read his book, Deep Work, which comes before productivity. Oh my gosh. Read it, please. It's so good. It's like life-changing stuff, but in slow productivity, he talks about how there are fewer and fewer people going deep nowadays.

So he talks about how to set yourself apart. How can you be different in this new and growing age? It's deeper because now with AI, people can do even so much more and so much more. Who are the people, though, who are doing the deep work, the work that you see it and you go, something's different, I can sense that. I can feel it. 

And so yeah, for our listeners, what is that for you? What is the deep work God might be calling you to do? What are some of these slow, productive ways he's calling you into that someone else can't do? It's uniquely you, whether it's in a relationship, whether it's creating a body of work, doing research, or rescuing people in your ministry. I mean, there are so many ways that this could manifest. So only you know, but what is that for you, for me? 

Yeah, I remember when I was going through my coaching training years back, they had us go through and come up with a vision, mission, and values statement. And it was just powerful for me because that's something I've pulled out, I think, in years past, too. I get a good sense of where I'm at and where I'm going. And, for me, I have got my three kinds of areas where life is focused. It's ministry and that's taking care of ministry leaders, which is what we do through Modern Day, through our nonprofit, where we work with Spanish-speaking pastors and missionaries. It's marriage. I love my marriage. I love my husband like. Can't even help it. I just like him so much. It's real. And so marriage stuff and then the marriage work that we do, the speaking, then there are missionaries. And again, that's my Modern Day stuff. And so that's kind of manifested through that and work and the spiritual direction work that I do. And then taking care of our special needs daughter. We've got one in college and we've got one who lives here with us. And making sure that she, you know, a lot of people have little kids, and then you grow out of that, and then you live in a different stage of life. And so it's like, I have a permanent elementary-aged kid just for life. So, it's not being frustrated by thinking, 'I wish this season would be done.' It's not like, what's the joy that's in this? This kind of forever season, and she's so funny. She brings so much joy into our lives. So yeah, the family side. 

Then I feel just grateful for the different types of work, work that I get to do. But I have to be careful, Amy, like you, not to say yes to too many things. I remember a good friend told me years ago when a lot of opportunities were opening up to her and she said, get good at saying no to things now because as you continue to grow, there's a good chance you'll get a lot more opportunities to say yes. And she said the yeses get a lot harder to say no to because they're shinier and bigger. And you better get clear on who you are now, get to that point, and never forget that. And that was pivotal for me and figuring it out. 

Have I said yes to some things that I wish hadn’t? Absolutely. And God, in his beautiful, sweet grace, has redeemed those things, and I've learned from them. So it's a daily journey that we get to walk in, but yes, like you said, Amy, let's be people of depth. Let's be people who are different from the frenetic world around us. Let's let people look at us and go, Hey, there is wisdom there. There is a connection to the Lord that I have not seen because, like Moses, you can tell when someone's been with God. You can tell when someone's living into their purpose. And so, how can we do that? 

So, going back to what you just mentioned, where God has called you in the Global Trellis space, I would love for listeners to know how they can engage more with Global Trellis.

Amy Young: Well, a couple of ways to go visit the website, globaltrellis.com, and see what's there. Our heart is for holistic growth and training, and all of us are gonna be slightly more drawn, like let's say, to the soul care side or the leadership side, and we are all called to be developing skills, financial skills, communication skills, conflict skills, rest skills, grief skills, and also tending our souls.

We have recently started Global  Trellis Insiders because we have so many resources. It could be very expensive if someone buys everything a la carte. Also, as insiders, we have then monthly office hours where we come and talk about a topic and wrestle in community because it is just good to have conversations that are slightly deeper, but not public. Like not a public zoom where everyone's gonna hear.

Stephanie Gutierrez: And at Modern Day, we are huge fans of Global Trellis. As you well know, Amy. But for all of you listeners, I hope you're well. This is the third time we've had Amy on, so you're maybe clueing into this point, but I just appreciate all that you have to offer. And again, people, you don't need to get overwhelmed. Like you'll go to Global Trellis and see, and you'll wanna take them on, and that's okay. That's why being an insider is a great idea because then you can just say, Hey, God, in this particular season, particular season, what do you want me to lean into? How do you want me to grow? And lean into that and go with that. 

But you have just such a great community over there. I just love what you've to offer, but I also love the community that you've created. I just want to say how much I value Amy. And I'm so thankful that missionaries have you and this great resource.

Amy Young: Well, these are the kind of conversations that I just love to think about because they matter. I don't want to get to the end of my life. I think that a 20-year-old who knew I could be pulled into the urgent, but I wanted to be sure that the important was always a thread in my life.

And I imagine that resonates with everyone listening to this. If you've been called into ministry, if you're heart of helping the kingdom of God advance, that's what we all wanna hear is at the end of the day, God saying, well done, good and faithful servant.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah, we're not living for the newsletter. We are living for the call of God placed on us and what God has called you to do, and how can you live more into the important and not be driven by the task master, the urgent? Amy, thank you so much for coming on and sharing again today. We so appreciate you.

Amy Young: Thanks, Stephanie. Well, what I also love about being important is that it's also fun. Like God is not anti fun and it's not all just productivity. So important and fun together.

Stephanie Gutierrez: That was the perfect way to end it.

Amy Young: Love you too. Thanks Stephanie.