Managing Money on the Mission Field Without Losing It with Vonna Laue

Do finances feel overwhelming, confusing, or just plain exhausting? Wondering how to run a budget, set up a nonprofit, or stay financially accountable, without a finance degree? We’ve got you covered.

In this episode, financial expert and missions CFO Vonna Laue joins us to share down-to-earth wisdom on how missionaries can manage money well, without losing their minds or their calling.

From personal budgeting tips to nonprofit setup, time-saving tools, and creative ways to get help (even if numbers aren’t your thing), this conversation is packed with practical, encouraging advice for your financial life on the field.

In This Episode, You'll Learn:

• What to do first when you're handed the keys to a new nonprofit
• One small shift that makes asking financial questions feel less intimidating
• How to find free help from people who actually love spreadsheets
• Where missionaries go wrong with expense reports—and how to fix it
• Creative ways AI can save you hours (without compromising your integrity)

Hey missionaries—how are your finances on the field? At Modern Day Missions, we make it simple for missionaries to receive donations and for donors to give. Serving 1,100+ missionaries worldwide, we free you to focus on your calling. We also offer resources like our weekly podcast, fundraising coaching, and a resource-packed newsletter. Connect with us at modernday.org

Thanks for listening! Email us your questions at care@modernday.org

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Chapters

• 0:30 Meet Vonna Laue
• 1:08 Diving into Personal and Nonprofit Finances
• 3:48 Setting Up and Managing Nonprofit Finances
• 10:57 Leveraging AI and Technology for Financial Management
• 18:19 Recommended Tools for Personal and Nonprofit Budgeting
• 21:14 Choosing and Learning to Use Financial Tools
• 22:08 Setting Up a Simple Budget for Missionaries
• 22:37 Utilizing Resources and Networks
• 24:44 Learning from Others' Experiences
• 25:21 Financial Management and Encouragement
• 26:38 The Importance of Asking for Help
• 31:50 Communicating Financial Information to Your Team
• 35:02 Resources for Financial Accountability and Transparency
• 39:44 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

Transcript

Stephanie Gutierrez: Vonna, thanks so much for joining us today on the podcast.

Vonna Laue: Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to it. It's gonna be fun.

Stephanie Gutierrez: It is, and we're talking on a different subject than we did last time. I loved where we went last time with the unexpected challenges. And then this time we're going into finances because that is your area of expertise, it's your background. And we're gonna be talking a little bit about personal finances and then also about people who are running nonprofits or charities where they're managing finances.

Vonna, can you share a little bit about your experience with finances and how that intersects with the missions world?

Vonna Laue: Absolutely. So my whole career has been serving churches and ministries. I started in 1996 with a CPA firm that was a national firm that served just churches and ministries, and was with them for 20 years. I left there as managing partner of the national firm in 2016. God called me to ECFA, which is the accreditation ministry for organizations. So did that for a couple of years, and now I have the pleasure of serving as the CFO of the team, the missions organization, as well as in the capacity of Director of Internal Audit for Crew and InterVarsity. So I've never lived in another professional world other than this one, and I hope not to because I love it. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: And we're so thankful that you love numbers the way that you do, because I think most missionaries did not sign up for ministry because they love spreadsheets, you know?

Vonna Laue: I'm a little afraid that people tuned out when I said it was gonna be fun, and you said it was gonna be about finance. So hopefully they hung with us and we'll show that finance can be fun. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Exactly, but that's the whole idea. You are such a down-to-earth, practical person, and so you're gonna be able to talk to us about finances in a way that makes sense to everybody. And with all of your experience working with missionaries and people in the mission space, what are some of the biggest challenges that people come to you with? What's bogging them down?

Vonna Laue: Well, I think part of it is just getting caught in the details. I’d say that if you did an MRI, you probably wouldn't even find the right half of my brain because I'm not creative. We've got incredible arts ministers in our organization, and I'm just like, that's amazing. How, where did that even come from? I know that for those people, they would say the reverse, right? They're like, what? This order and logic and reasoning, and all of that. Like, what's that about? Not to get bogged down, don't become overwhelmed by it. And really to encourage people to ask questions, to seek advice, to invite others in. It doesn't mean that it's gonna go away for us, but we may have others that can come alongside and be helpful in that, in the work that needs to be done there.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. Okay. Let's talk for a minute about those who are overseeing nonprofits that are running, maybe charities in the country. What, let's just say somebody just got given one or just began one. What should be some other first steps financially in setting something like that up? So we're going beyond personal budgets now into something a bit larger.

Vonna Laue: Sure. One of the things that I would say is to understand if you're setting something up, make sure that you've got people that are around you that can help you. If it's not where you're gifted, there are specific things that you need to know, you need to be compliant with, or it can be very problematic.

So make sure that you've got someone or several someones around you that can help with that. It's something that you're taking over or you're coming into as a new position. Understand what you're getting into. You know, what is the financial system, what's the current financial situation, who has that information, and meet with them, then they understand then ask questions if you're not clear. One of the things that several people seem to think is that. By not asking questions, WWE makes us look smarter. It makes us look like we know what we're doing, but actually, sometimes it just makes you seem disinterested because we would expect that you're gonna have questions. You haven't been involved in this.

And so asking the questions will get you the information you need to make good decisions. So don't just rely on the information, and if something doesn't look right, look into it. So many times, you know, you mentioned earlier, unfortunately, there have been ministries where, you know, fraudulent activities have taken place or there's been mismanagement. And often if someone had just said, That doesn't look right, you know, what is that? Has been asked. I've always worked with our girls, asking follow-up questions. You know, if they had asked the follow-up questions, maybe it could have been avoided. Make sure that you clearly understand the situation, ask the questions, and involve the people who need to get the expertise to handle things properly.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Ask lots of questions. Always good advice. I agree. I'm asking you lots of questions today, Vonna. There's so much that I have to learn.

Vonna Laue: Oh, you just wait till I turn the table.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Okay, so, someone is looking into starting or having a nonprofit, and let's just say they don't have a lot of experience in terms of running something like this. And you mentioned asking questions. How else can they learn about this? Because again, I'm just picturing like I'm a missionary and I just see there's a lot of need and all of a sudden I'm feeling prompted to start something. What might be some other steps that I can take to just learn about how something like that even works?

Vonna Laue: Sure, we have access to so much information. Now, if you asked me this question 20 years ago, the answer would have been significantly different. Because we didn't have access to it. Like you had to go to a week-long conference and pay airfare and hotel, and registration. And some of those still exist and are valuable. But typically more from the networking aspect than even just the information. Because now there are webinars. There are podcasts by great people.  You know, there are online learning opportunities and that can be from, you know, a 30-minute interaction to, you know, a course that's over several weeks. And so that's the high level. 

Let me break it down and give some examples. These are not all of the examples, but Christian Leadership Alliance has several resources either from articles, blogs, up through, they have a certificate,  a credentialing for the nonprofit leader. And so you can take individual courses related to that.  ECFA has all the time on things related to financial transparency, donors, and board governance.  They'll do webinars on those and, just a myriad.  Missio Nexus, obviously, in the missions community, a ton of resources, so they're out there, and it's as little or as much as you want.

And I would say, look at the areas where you feel like you're weakest, and maybe hone in on those and go find some resources that are available there. Networking and asking questions, little of what we encounter hasn't already been encountered. And that's why I think these associations are great, because as you sit in a session with someone, you realize, oh, they use the same software or they've been working on a foundation grant as well, or you know, fill in the blank. Whatever the situation is, some people have gone ahead of you, and I find in the missions community we are overall really open-handed about trying to accomplish the Great Commission. It doesn't have a name tied to it. It just is a calling that we all have. And so my helping you helps us all accomplish that, and I'm so grateful for that, that that seems to be the pervasive attitude amongst everybody. So ask people, ask people that you serve with in the field, or jump online and find a network.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. Thank you for bringing that up. Because I do think it's significant. I mean, I know when we were serving as missionaries for all those years, I don't think there was a huge mission community in the world. I mean, I knew a little bit about being an expat. There was a Facebook group for expats, I think one in Peru. And towards the end, I found a missions group, or we started a missions group. But I didn't know a lot. And I've realized, you know, since then, they're all over the place. And there's something valuable to networking with other missionaries because they do, like you said, Vonna, they rework things that have already been done before. And if we can keep that open-handed sharing attitude, we're not competing for finances. It can feel that way. 

But it's not a competition because there are so many people out there and organizations who really wanna make a difference. And we are each doing something different. So what appeals to one donor is not gonna appeal to another donor. So there's, yeah, I think connecting, I think connecting with missionaries, in the space is a great way to run things past people and get good ideas. And I'm even thinking as we're talking, like ChatGPT, I mean, I know everyone's talking AI. But that could be even a great way to get started. Just pop on in, how do I start a nonprofit, and ask all those questions. Not that you need to take financial advice from them. You should check everything past a professional, but to get you going and get ideas, it's a great little brainstorming partner.

Vonna Laue: No, I agree. And on both of those, I mean, I would say to people I serve as the CFO of a missions organization. I've been a CPA for a long time. When we have something new that comes up or a challenge, I can tell you the five or six other ministry CFOs that I reach out to. So I do it like I have all the answers, and others do the same with me, so I wouldn't expect that you would have all the answers.  And there's something to be said for that as far as AI. Absolutely. My caution to people is, you know, don't be putting confidential information in there for your organization, your donors, et cetera. So much information is available, and it can save so much time. 

The second caution is that you do have to verify it.  Look at the sources that it's pulling from, and when you get into specific things, actually go to those sources and look at them yourself. But I use it, I needed to put together a website for a small organization that we have. And I mentioned earlier, like, no right side of my brain, no creativity. And so the web designer was like, What do you want it to say? And I was like, I have no idea. And so I went to chat with ChatGPT and was like, Create web pages for an organization that does this. And literally within 10 minutes, I'd cut and pasted, taken that, sent it to the designer, and he was like, Oh, this is great. No problem. I'll get it done. I was like, I just did web content. Like, how did that happen? We've used it for policies, you know, do a first draft on a policy that way, and then make it your own. Do consider where that research can be done, where first drafts of policies or procedures or memos and documents can be drafted.

I did a job description. One of the new jobs that we were creating, and there's just so much to be gained from that. So don't be afraid of it. Just those two cautions for research. And make sure you don't disclose confidential information. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yes. Yes. And you're right. I'm even looking into that when, if you're wanting to like write a book or create, you know, something from scratch, if you put it in there, somebody could access that. I mean, somebody could use that. It is out there. They said it's not likely, but if you put something in there, generate something for you that could be suggested for somebody else.

So you're right in bringing those two up. So thank you for mentioning those. I'd love to even dig in there a second. A little bit more financially, are you aware of some things that could be done with AI that would be helpful to a missionary who might be stuck in finances, either personally or with their nonprofit? Like what tools might be available there?

Vonna Laue: Really, I would call it a place to ask questions. There are fundraising ideas that can be generated; there's so much content that's out there. So, looking at it from that perspective could help you write donor letters or donor communications if you feel like that's kind of stagnant for you right now. So those are some of the ways personally that you might be able to, organizationally, like I said, a lot of the communications, policies, procedures, those sorts of things. That's a great place to pick up a ton of time. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: I'm even thinking I've had to write some proposals before, and I think I tried writing a couple of weeks ago. I wrote a proposal in there, and that was helpful, and it calculated out. All, the numbers for me too, I enjoy math, but I don't like proposing itself. I get tripped up by the kind of design of it sometimes. And that was even just nice. 

Or I had an upcoming travel I had to do, thinking of all the finances of that, and I was like, okay, if I do this or I do this, could you do a cost comparison? And that was helpful for me, so for somebody who's looking to do some financial cost comparison, or maybe I haven't tried a spreadsheet. I mean, I bet they could probably do a spreadsheet, so listeners, you're gonna have to let us know.

Vonna Laue: That's right. I was just listening to someone, I think it was this morning.  On another podcast, that was said that someone reached out to them and said, Hey, can you show me how to do a VLOOKUP in Excel? And they were like, ah, I don't remember off the top of my head. Just go to AI. And they called back like 10 minutes later, and they were like, I'm done. Like, it was just done. So again, make sure that you're careful about it the but it's there and it's, yeah, it's zing. 

I would say this, I think it's true of so many things that we have, and that is, a tool, not a weapon, right? So it is a tool. We don't wanna use it to create problems. We don't want to create problems by using it. And here I don't think that we need to necessarily shy away from it because it's current culture. There have been a lot of those things over time that, you know, became ingrained, and we wouldn't think about life any differently. I mean, imagine not using a computer now or a car or whatever. They were all new at some point in time. So it's here, but use it as a tool and probably organizationally look at what policies you should have in place to govern its use. 

I was with an organization recently, and someone within the leadership team said, We're not allowed to use AI. And several of us were like, what in the world? And that person and the leadership that was left in the room said, That's not exactly correct. We've got some parameters, but we understand that they use them. And so everyone just needs to be on board with how it can be used and provide some training, and give people ideas. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: And like you mentioned earlier,  like a brainstorming tool or a rough draft, it's a great thing to get you started. Or for simple tasks, I don't think you want to write all of your donor communication using that, but use it as a brainstorming tool, like get it started, maybe write. Our first draft, and then take it and tweak it, and make it sound like you, and add in personal stories. But sometimes I think you just have a hard time getting started, like, what's that first sentence? Or what's, what's an angle I could take? And if you just use it like a person sitting across from you, it can be really helpful and then just not feel so overwhelming. 

I mean, we are talking about this finance piece. It's how we began saying this feels overwhelming sometimes. So, what a blessing. However, you feel about AI. What a blessing. That there are options to simplify life, and that's what any tool is. So speaking of tools, Vonna, what would be some other tools that you might recommend to somebody, either with their budgeting or with their nonprofit budgeting?

Vonna Laue: So that's so specific to the individual, right? So we'll talk about a few of them…

Stephanie Gutierrez: Okay. 

Vonna Laue: I want people to understand that you use what you're comfortable with for some of you. It might simply be an Excel spreadsheet. Okay, that's fine. For some of you, it might be a personal package, like Quicken or any of the online personal finance apps that are available. You know, organizationally, it's always best to start simple. A lot of smaller organizations are gonna use QuickBooks. Yeah, some CPAs have a heart attack about QuickBooks because it doesn't have some of the security features and everything else, but I'd rather have something that someone is going to use and use well than be afraid of or feel like it's too cumbersome or too difficult and not use it. So I just encourage you to find something that you're comfortable with and that you will use. 

Because otherwise it's always something that gets put on the back burner, right? Like, I need to do that, I need to do that. And you do that, the project goes from, you know, frustrating or boring to just overwhelming. I suggest starting simple, a win. You know, maybe that first step is okay. I'm gonna check with some others and see what they're using and what they like about it, what they don't like about it. And then I'm gonna pick something that I'm going to use. Maybe that's just the first step. And then once you've done that, then learn how to use it because I don't know about you, but I have it sitting over here.

I have this device, right? I use a fraction of what that device can do. And it's the same way often with the tools that we have for finances. We know how to do the one or two things that we want to do, but I just encourage people understand, whatever the tool is that you're using, understand how it can be used because there may be other features in there that could be beneficial to you, that you're maybe even doing some other way simply because you didn't know it would do that.

So start, get some wins. And pick up some momentum, and it'll carry on. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Okay, so for the missionary who is, again, just getting started because we're kind of just talking to some of these basics right now, what are some of the non-negotiables as they're getting started setting up their budget? And we're talking to the missionary who just is like, I don't know, money comes in and then I end up spending it and I don't even know where it goes, and we're just kind of living month to month, hoping enough comes in each time. Where does someone like that begin in setting up, maybe a simple budget?

Vonna Laue: Sure. The first thing I would encourage people to do is see what resources are available. If you're going through an agency, see what resources are available to you there.  I recognize that on that spectrum, there's anything from an organization that simply receives your contributions and issues tax-deductible receipts and sends you money. To the far other end of the spectrum, where they'll do your tax return, they'll help you with your budget. They'll help you with your donations and everything in between. But the first place I would start is with your agency to see what tools they have to help you, because they have sent hundreds or thousands of people before you. They've done this. It's the first time for you, but it's not the first time for them. Start there. 

Then, if you are on your own, understand that you get good information to understand what your costs are going to be, you can probably even start by looking at what you are paying, what your expenses are. Now it may be different, as far as the dollar amount. But you eat groceries here, you're going to eat groceries there. You have housing here, you're gonna have housing there. You may not have car insurance because you may not have a car there, but what insurance do you need to have? So most of the things that you would have in a budget or that you're spending money on stateside, you're gonna have an equivalent to that over there. That's a good place to start. And then, also working with others that are already on the field there, whether they're with your agency or somebody else, they've got a handle on just what the costs are. Maybe any of the unusual items that you wouldn't have thought of. You know, taxes that are unique to the country where you're gonna be, unusual expenses related to, you know, education or travel or whatever. So utilize your network and the people around you. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: For sure. I remember when we moved overseas, we met a couple who'd been there just a year before us, and oh my gosh, did we learn so much from them! They were like, here's what we did. We messed up in this, don't you do it. And then we did the same thing and just passed that information on to other new missionaries as they came in. Like, here's all the stuff we made mistakes and here are the places to save money. Here's how the currency is fluctuating. Because in some countries the currency is fairly stable, but some of it fluctuates hugely. And so you have to create a different kind of budget and have a different kind of cushion when you don't know what the currency is gonna look like from day to day. So you can learn a lot.

Vonna Laue: Living in those realities that we encounter, and so that's true. So give yourself more credit than you came into this podcast with. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Ah, thanks. I do manage the finances in our house, and I do enjoy numbers. I have to say I am nowhere close to where you are at Vonna, but I do like a little spreadsheet now and then have a fun time with it.

Vonna Laue: Ah, spreadsheets, my love language. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: I know listeners don't hate us. If you don't like numbers, it's okay. God will give you grace. You can do it. I remember when we were in Peru, because I've always been our finance one. We had trouble with the banks in Peru, and Danny, my husband, ended up doing our finances the whole time we were there, which was so weird for us because it was a total switch from how we'd always done it.

And I was so proud of him. He learned it, and he did a wonderful job. I helped some back at home, but he just understood the language, and I didn't have language skills when we first moved there. I was limited in my Spanish, so there wasn't a whole lot I could do. So there is grace for those of you whose numbers are not maybe your first language. I believe God will help you, and you can pair up with someone who loves numbers because there are number nerds around you. I trust you. The Lord will lead them to you, and they will love to share their number expertise with you.

Vonna Laue: Well, and that's true. Within the fields where we serve, some people may be church planters and disciples. But they still may have a great grasp on the finances, and they would be so encouraged to be able to come alongside you and help. So again, know, coming back to that, ask questions, be vulnerable. Don't act like you have it all together when you don't, because you're just doing a disservice to yourself, and people are able to be encouraged to serve you in that way.  You know, maybe your gift is making brownies. You can feel free to encourage me in that way. Anytime you know, you, I'll trade brownies for a bank reconciliation.

So, you know, let the people on your team be able to shine where God's gifted them. Even if it's not their primary role where they're serving, they may be able to come alongside and be a gift to you. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Absolutely. And on that same note, there could be somebody on your support team back in your passport country who is looking, you know, they're looking for a way to serve, and they enjoy being organized, and they would love to help you with that kind of stuff as well. I mean, so it can be hard for those of us who don't like asking for help, but if we are just willing to ask for help, some people would love to serve in those kinds of ways.

It's shocking that things, people like serving, and we just assume because you hate, you know? Because I hate doing it, everyone else is gonna hate doing it. No, there's somebody who loves it. That's how this world goes around. We all have things we're good at and things we're not good at. So who might be willing to serve?

Vonna Laue: That's a great point that you raised, and maybe I'm gonna go off target a little bit, but I still would like to get this in, and it's related to donor support. And you just mentioned, you know, you may have a donor that wants to be able to help you in that way. And sometimes, asking people to support us financially is something that we're uncomfortable with.

We're going through this, our daughter and her husband are fundraising right now to go long-term to South America, she's like, well, I don't wanna ask. And one of the things that my husband passed down to her and explained, and I just love it because it's so true. And he said his mom and dad always supported missionaries, you know, if they were home on furlough, they stayed at his house, and they supported him financially, and they wanted the reports, and they went to missions conferences, and he said they loved missions and felt called to missions, but they didn't feel called to serve overseas. And their way of supporting was financial or opening their home. Or in the example that you just gave, maybe sharing their expertise. And so I would encourage listeners today to look at your donors from that perspective. That you are not asking them for something, you're inviting them to take part in what God's doing in global Missions, and you're allowing them to be part of that however they choose to participate. And that perspective is just such a different perspective from asking them for money to support you. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: It is such a beautiful way to invite people to be a part of your team who they would never think they could serve. Like I love, how can I serve a missionary? Maybe that wouldn't clicked for their brain. But if you just put it out there, Hey, here's a list of needs that we have, I need help with figuring out money. I need help with spreadsheets. See who the Lord might bring your way. And I think you'll be surprised whether it's somebody on your team there, or whether it's somebody back on your support team. Yeah.

So if you are isolated where you are serving, I think this is a theme coming out today, Vonna, and it comes out really in a lot of our podcasts, which is networking. And in networking, it sounds so businessy, but making connections, making friendships, getting to know people is the absolute best way to thrive in the field. It just is. And so, hey, I'm one too, don't I? Doesn't matter. That can't be an excuse to not connect in spaces where God wants to use you and use people to bless you. At a certain point had to be like, I'm done being shy now. And that was hard. I was shy for the majority of my life and finally went, you know what? I'm done. I'm done being shy. I can't take this anymore. It's isolating me and keeping me from relationships that God wants me to have. 

And oh, it just, it felt refreshing to just finally like, step out and we, at our house, we call it kind confidence, you know, not, not, not so kind that you're not confident. If I'm too nice, then I'm not making bold requests, but if I am too confident, then not being very nice. So if you can step out in kind confidence, it is amazing what God can do. And all it takes is a couple of yeses, and you just light up on the inside, and you realize, oh my gosh, I can do this. And of course, getting through a lot of rejections, too. I'm not saying like if you just ask one time, it's gonna be so easy. There's rejection you have to go through, too. But there are such good things on the other side.

 Oh, that's so good, Vonna. Okay, so also, I'm thinking of people who lead teams. If you can get ahold of this too, what's the potential to be able to communicate these types of things about finances to the people on your team? What might be some good ways they could communicate?

Vonna Laue: Well, having some sort of communication mechanism is, right? Are you using signal? Are you using WhatsApp? You know, how are you doing that? Because it might just be some small updates. It doesn't have to be a four-hour sit-down meeting.  Just dropping something in there about, Hey, pray about this financial need. Or don't forget, budgets should be done by the state, like that. That might be one. Utilize whatever resources are available to you for communications. 

And then identify what the important things are. Of the things that I would, maybe it dovetails in here, maybe I'm just creating my rabbit trail, but, we often feel like some of the things that are put upon us are kind of red tape, bureaucratic, administrative burdens, maybe is a good way of saying it, but understand why those exist and then be able to communicate that to your team. So let me give you an example of that report. When I say that, like two-thirds of your listeners just shudder, right? Because expense reports drive everybody crazy, but they drive people crazy because we require that you have a ministry purpose stated, and that there's documentation with receipts, and that it's done timely, and all of these things that seem administrative nature. What I sometimes hear people say is, You just want me to do this to make your job easier, right? 

And that's how it's viewed, and I understand that. Well, if I'm able to communicate, the reason that we have those and procedures in place is because that's what the IRS requires, that it's not treated as taxable income to you and included in your W-2. Okay? All of a sudden, the attitude just entirely changed because it's not about me, it's about you. And we're trying to do what we can to take care of you. But if you don't know that, then of course it seems like we're just giving you busy work or making life difficult or making our life easier. But I would use that as an example to communicate to you, you know, what's the important financial information that they need to have? What are some of the things that you need them to do or give you information on, or whatever, and communicate the why? 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. It does. And that financial accountability and also transparency are so important. If we wanna be entrusted with finances, then we do need to show how we're using that responsibly. What would you say to people, how they can be more financially accountable and transparent to the organizations or the supporting churches they represent back home?

Vonna Laue: Well, I mentioned ECFA just a little while ago. The Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability and two of its pillars are transparency and accountability. Like it's in their name, right? The Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. It's fair. But ECFA, again, they are also very open-handed with their resources. They want to come alongside ministries. If you're part of an agency, a mission sending organization, your organization is probably a member of ECFA. So even the member-only resources that they have may be available to you, but there are podcasts, and there are eBooks. 

When I was there,  a few years ago, I think we were up to about 25 or 30 eBooks that had been written. Super simple, like five steps on how to do this, and seven steps on how to do that. So it just takes all of those things, whether it's ministerial housing allowance, or budgeting, or accountable reimbursement plans, all of those, and makes them so simple. So that to me is one of the biggest resources that I send people to. They also have a book that comes out every year, which is the Church and Nonprofit Tax and Financial Guide. And the best part is it's written in plain English. It's not technical, and it's, it's inexpensive. It's a free resource to the member orgs and a very inexpensive resource, but it's usually, I think, about 140 pages, and most of those things are as an organization that you're gonna encounter. Tax-deductible, donation receipts: what should be included? Moving expenses, how do we treat that, you know, restricted gifts, what do we do with that? Those are all in there. And again, just written in everyday language, not IRS tax code type lingo, not generally accepted accounting principles. You need to be worried. And so I would encourage people to look at those opportunities. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: We love real English, you know, and it couldn't double as a book to help you fall asleep at night, too… I'm teasing, but sort of, I mean, it could…

Vonna Laue: Some of it, right? A little, there's a hint of truth behind every teasing I know. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: I need it because, as plain English as it is, it still is about finances. And so, but I think that it still is great that you mention it because you gotta get those answers somewhere. And so I appreciate that people write about things in ways that are easy to understand. There are just parts of our job that are not gonna always be our favorite, and so Vonna and I are not trying to get you to fall in love with money today. You know, when you buy a house, there are bathrooms and there are toilets to be cleaned, and you don't buy a house thinking like, oh my gosh, I bet someday I'm gonna fall in love with cleaning the toilets. No, that's just part of the job. Everybody's got their household tasks that they don't like to do, and so you don't have to fall in love with this, but you gotta clean your toilet and you gotta do your finances. For some of you, you're like, how could you compare finances to toilet finances??? It's so fun. We get you, too. But if it's a toilet task for you, then that's okay. 

Vonna Laue: That's so awesome. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: We still gotta do it. And there's grace for it, and the responsibility part is there. So yes, we believe that the Lord can help you. And we're gonna pose links to all this too. I was thinking of another resource. I recently interviewed a gentleman, Keith Webb. He is a coach and has a class called MoneyMatters that is specifically for missionaries, where he goes through. All of these things from a missionary perspective which is so helpful. So there, like you said, Vonna are so many good things out there. So it's finding one that you connect with, not trying to read them all, not trying to do them all.

Just pick one and go through it. Get some help from people around you. And we believe God will give you the grace and the understanding to do it because if he's called you to be a missionary. He's called you to also manage finances responsibly. If he's called you to be a human, if he made you, he's called you to manage finances responsibly. This is a part of life. It's not just for missionaries, but it can feel a little bit more complex. Also, think about it, okay, I'm living in the US right now, and I was living overseas, and I thought it was a lot easier doing our finances over there. I mean, granted, I know my husband was doing it, but I was right there with him, and it was, and there were a lot of things that were a lot simpler too, so it's all good. I mean, it might even be easier when you're where you're at than it would be back in your passport country. You never know. God might be saving you by placing you there.

Vonna Laue: Like that attitude. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Hey, I can find a positive spin on it. On anything, you know, you and me, both. Vonna, thank you so much for coming on and sharing about that today. I appreciate it. I feel like there was just a lot of practical wisdom there. And I'm hoping that everybody was able to just grab onto one nugget and take one step forward in one area. That's all it takes to get you going. 

Vonna Laue: What I would say. Like a step. I said it earlier, get a win. You get it all at the same time. If it seems overwhelming, piece it out. Take a piece of it, figure that out, get a win, and move on from there. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Absolutely, and dig back through previous episodes. I know we've done one on taxes before, if you need help with taxes. We've done ones on fundraising. This is a topic we talk about a lot here at Modern Day. So we want to help equip you with resources by connecting you with really smart people like Vonna, who get all of this and who can guide us in the right direction.

So thank you for being one of those financial experts and coming on and sharing your wisdom with us today, Vonna. We appreciate you.

Vonna Laue: Well, thanks for having me. I'm so pleased for everyone that's listening, and I just pray that God will continue to use them in mighty ways. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Amen.