When Missionaries Get Angry (and What to Do About It) with Erik Troyer

Have you ever felt angry on the mission field—and then guilty for it? You’re not alone. From cultural clashes to team tension to the things that just shouldn’t be, anger surfaces—and it often comes with a side of shame.

In this deeply honest conversation, counselor Erik Troyer helps us reframe our understanding of anger, not as something to suppress, but as an invitation to draw nearer to God. Whether your anger is loud or silent, clear or confusing, this episode offers clarity, compassion, and a path forward.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

• Why anger is normal—even for missionaries—and how to stop shaming yourself for feeling it
• How to recognize what’s under the surface of your anger, like fear, unmet expectations, or pain
• What to do when you’ve already blown up—or shut down—in unhealthy ways
• How to create safe space for others’ anger as a leader, parent, or teammate
• The difference between righteous anger and resentment—and how to tell which one you're dealing with

Questions to Ponder as You Listen:

• What’s my typical response to anger—exploding, hiding, or something else?
• What am I really afraid of in the moments I feel most angry?
• Do I believe it’s safe to share my anger with God—or with someone else?
• Where do I need to ask for forgiveness—from God, from others, or from myself?
• What kind of support do I need to process the things that are still simmering beneath the surface?

Thanks for listening! Email us your questions at care@modernday.org

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Chapters

• 1:37 Meet Erik Troyer
• 2:25 Missionaries and Anger: A Unique Perspective
• 7:39 Righteous Anger and Its Challenges
• 12:49 The Impact of Cross-Cultural Stress
• 16:55 Seeking Support and Safe Spaces
• 28:03 Managing Expectations and Embracing Flexibility
• 29:47 Understanding Change and Personality
• 30:11 Identifying Default Conflict Styles
• 32:57 Balancing Grace and Truth in Leadership
• 35:55 Handling Team Conflicts
• 42:32 Empathy and Action in Leadership
• 45:43 Dealing with Personal Anger
• 49:34 Seeking Forgiveness and Growth
• 53:34 Conclusion and Encouragement

Transcript

6/26/2025: Erik Troyer

Stephanie Gutierrez: Welcome to this episode of the Modern Day Missionaries podcast. Today we're talking about anger. Anger on the mission field, missionaries who get angry, and all the different ways that we get angry. Whether you are an outwardly angry person, or whether you are secretly angry, or whether you think you're never angry at all, we talk about all of it today.

Today, I am here with Eric Troyer from Valeo. Eric is a counselor with Valeo and oversees their counselors as they go out and meet with missionaries on the field, and it's an excellent organization. Eric himself was a missionary with his family for many years while raising his kids. And so he brings the experience of having been a missionary and then being a counselor who works with missionaries and sees all the different ways in which we experience all of these emotions.

So today is going to be profoundly deep as we talk about some of the things that bring up anger in us and how we can manage and experience anger healthily. So with that, we're gonna dive into today's episode with Eric Troyer. Hey, Eric. Thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today.

Erik Troyer: Oh. Glad to be here. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Oh yeah, it's, it's so good to be with you. I was just talking to Danny, thinking about when we were with you in Caroline, down in Thailand last year, and the retreat for missionaries, and you came and were providing counseling, and it was such a fun time and so impacting for all the missionaries who were there.

Erik Troyer: Yeah, I agree. Those sorts of settings, I mean, there's just a kind of irreplaceable impact that happens in those settings when they're able to get away and process in an environment that's completely removed from what they're going through. Some good things happen. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: That's the truth. Well, and we got to know you guys and just loved your energy, your spirit, the way that you care for people. And so I knew the first time I met you, I wanted to have you on. And when I was thinking about topics, the one that came to mind was anger, which can sound funny.

Like, why are we talking about anger? That sounds random, but I mean, for any missionary who's listening. We get angry, and some of you are like, I don't get angry. Well, you are just suppressing your anger. I know I was one of those, even you sweet ones. I mean, there's no way for you to live in a cross-cultural setting to make the kind of changes and adjustments that you have in life and not feel some variation on anger. So I kind of just would love to begin unpacking that a little bit with you, Eric. 

What are some of the differences in ways people express or suppress anger? And where's that coming from in missionary spaces?

Erik Troyer: Well, first of all, I'm glad that of all the people that you thought about anger and rage, I was the first person that came to mind. So, thank you for that. 

Anyway, well, it's interesting you ask that question. So, being in the missions world my whole adult life, and basically those outside will often ask me, like, what's unique about serving missionaries? Or tell me what are the major things are that missionaries struggle with?

And in some regard, in a lot of regards actually, we're just people. I mean, everybody deals with anger, and the whole array of emotions that come with just life.

 And so I think that would be my preface to answering that question, is, well, why do missionaries struggle with anger? Because they're people and they're human and they're just like everybody else. I would say the special circumstances and surroundings, environment, and issues that they have to deal with have some exacerbating and complicating factors, which might increase anger. But the fact that they struggle with it, I mean, is quite normal.

Stephanie Gutierrez: I love that you said that. I mean, let's just even dig into, first of all, I love that you brought up just the normality of it, or normality of like, anger's real. It's it, we're humans. We struggle with it and we experience it. Maybe talk about anger as an emotion. Sometimes we label it so negatively. What's a healthy way to view anger?

Erik Troyer: That's a great question. And I think we have to look at it as an okay experience to have as opposed to something that is to be avoided or discounted or minimized, or most of us, and I say this having worked with many, many a person, I would say most don't come from family models where the healthy expression and embracing of anger as just a normative experience in life is okay. Usually, it's a bad thing that we need to not have part of our life, or it's such an accepted and over-the-top experience that people don't know quite sure how to deal with it because it's so volatile and impactful.

But I would say I always like liken it to that warning light on your dashboard of the car, right? It's just saying, hey, there's something that is going on. And we all have had cars that we've driven way too long with that check engine light on, but it's, it's not something that you can just cover over and say there's nothing there. Anger is, kind of warning to say something's going on deeper, and we need to understand what's driving this expression or feeling of anger and what do I do with it. And so I think it's, we really would benefit from a bit of a reframing of anger to see it not as a negative emotion, but just as an emotion period, the end.

And it's okay to have it now. I mean, we'll talk further here, but I mean, what we do with that and how we allow it to either control us or are we in control of it, and how do we express it. Going from that point is a different matter, but the fact that we have anger, there's nothing wrong with that. It's part of our existence. And so I think that's kind of the first thing to keep in mind.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. Okay. So anger is neutral, but the expression of anger is not. And so even thinking about, I'm thinking about the different ways that I felt and experienced anger. I mean, we've got the biblical righteous anger, we see Jesus overturning the tables, where we see God righteously angry, and the beauty of that. And as a missionary, if I'm experiencing righteous anger and that propels me to do something, to save someone, to help someone, there's a beauty in that. Like, I'm glad God gets angry on my behalf.

Erik Troyer: Amen.

Stephanie Gutierrez: There is anger that protects, and then there's that aggressive anger that's scary, that hurts others. Then there's the passive-aggressive anger, which hurts others differently. And there's self-directed anger. I would love for you to kind of share about maybe I'm missing some of it, and there's more you could add, the different kinds of anger that a missionary might experience.

Erik Troyer: Yeah, so I think when we talk about righteous anger. It is a little bit difficult for us, right? Because when we compare ourselves to God's understanding, we're just never gonna be able to see, understand, and handle that emotion in the same way.

So, yes, Paul encourages us to be angry, but do not sin, you know? But so often we do sin when we're angry, we just have less ability to cope with it. But yeah, I mean that righteous anger, there is so much that this side of glory that is broken. And when you're in the world, you see that in some pretty sad, real ways. And, for a missionary to see that regularly. 

That leads to deep levels of wounding and impact and just the injustice, the hurt, the the ugliness that this world, the people that you have gone to live amongst and serve, they are being oppressed, they're being taken advantage of, they're being abused, they're being hurt, they're being stolen from, they're being lied to and manipulated. Like, I mean, all these things that are just so in this world, and your heart pours out for these people. And so there is an anger, there is a, hey Lord, this is not right. This is not your will in this world. And indeed it's not. I mean, but again, we live on this side of full redemption and full glory.

And so I think that is one thing that we can be glad that we can resonate with the heart of God. Ao maybe one point on that, that I think is important, is instead of saying, I ought not feel this way, we need to go to God and say, How can I partner with you, not in revenge, right? Vengeance is his, but how can I partner with you at a heart level over the injustice, over the brokenness, over the hurt, and the pain? And so anger in that context and taken from that vantage point really can be a blessing because it builds intimacy and connection and depth and alignment with God's heart.

And so, anger can be something that is used for some real good in our lives. And if we can just be honest, I mean, you look at just the Psalms, I mean, there's a lot in other portions of scripture, but you just look at the Psalms, I mean, full of, I would say not just communicating frustration and slight anger, but absolute rage and just pouring out before the Lord. And I mean, that is where he wants us, is to be in that level of intimate relation with him, where we can pour out our hearts, cry, and let our hearts roar at times before him. So yeah, I mean, that's the positive side of anger, that righteous anger. 

But we experience a lot of other aspects of anger, too. And that comes from ourselves feeling devalued or minimized or rejected or not heard or not. Not loved. I mean, there are lots of other things that can kind of betray. Absolutely.

Stephanie Gutierrez: And the list goes on and on, all the things that can happen to make us feel angry. I remember going on the field, and we lead a missionary internship for young adults for a lot of years, and you would just kind of watch them go through all the emotions when they came down, and in the beginning, of course, it's honeymoon, but they would get to the point where they started to feel, angry and sad and crying and all the feels. But the anger piece is so real, especially when there's a clash of cultural values. Like, this is how things should be and not because you think your culture is better, but because it's what you're used to and it's what you were taught, and then you come encounter with a value that's completely opposing to what you grew up with, and you're like, what? That's inappropriate. I mean, oh gosh, even stuff like, I mean, what missionary has not had trouble getting a visa, and been asked for a bribe. I mean, feel righteously ignorant at that point. Like, how dare they ask me for a bribe? And then you realize how the government works. Not that it's right, but that's just how it works.

To everything like what you mentioned to seeing somebody get hurt, seeing your kids mistreated, to being betrayed by somebody in your church, or a leader, or somebody on your support team saying something rude. I mean, there are a thousand things, and we're just more raw sometimes, I don't wanna say we're more raw than other human beings, but sometimes, in life, it’s where we are.

Erik Troyer: Well, I think there are some contributing factors to that, and there are more variables at play. I mean, having experienced life cross-culturally and life in the States, there's just a lot more that you contend with regularly. There's a lot more out of your control, stress points, and then you combine that with the fact that you don't just have colleagues, but you have that kind of intertwineness of life in a very different way that leads to different levels of stress oftentimes within a team, and then the socioeconomic, the political, the environmental, and the visa issue.

Yeah. So I do believe that the plight of the cross-cultural workers. Lifestyle and setting do compound and just bring about a next level order of things that can lead to anger for sure.

Stephanie Gutierrez: And we're talking about it today because it is an emotion that has great potential to do a lot of harm. Let's say that all emotions are neutral, but not all emotions are the same in terms of their potential impact. And deep, deep anger can do deep, deep damage to ourselves and those around us. Missionaries, you can just feel like, Who do I talk to about my anger? I mean, if I've got a problem with patience, sure, I can call my team back home or somebody from member care or whatever and be like, I'm struggling with a lack of patience. And everyone's like, ah, me too. And it's, it's a big joke.

When do you confide in someone when you are angry? Somebody says Man, I'm struggling with anger. Everyone's like, okay, person. Like what? So it's not something that is comfortable talking to other people because we don't know what their reaction is going to be. So then we are left with our anger, whether it's coming out straight and hurting people, like a fire hose, or it's like a secret poison, just eating away at people bit by bit through withdrawing or side comments. Left without the tools to know what to do with this. 

So I would just ask you, like, as a counselor, Eric, what would you do if somebody felt safe enough to come to you? Because you're at Valeo, you're a neutral party. And so nobody from their organization's gonna find out they're meeting with you. So when someone comes to you and says. Eric, I am struggling with anger. What are some of the places that you take them to or ways you're able to help them?

Erik Troyer: Yeah. Yeah. And I would say, I mean, that is my profession, and my place of work. And, I very much value and believe that a counseling relationship can be a very safe and healthy place to process these sorts of things. But it's not the only place. Right. And so I would frame what people need as support, like true, genuine support. And that may be a counselor. It might be somebody from your home fellowship. It might be a dear friend, it might be a family member. Might be somebody in your organization, but everybody, I believe, absolutely needs those safe people in their life to be able to share what's going on. Because if we contain it inside, generally speaking, it only leads to more anger and more frustration, and then it can lead down that road of oftterness and resentment, which begins to just rot us from the inside, a nd it becomes much more insidious than just the pure emotion of anger.

And so yeah, but in a counseling setting, if somebody comes in and says, Hey, I'm struggling with anger. I mean, my first goal is to allow them to have that freedom to put it all out there without any judgment, without any criticism, or need to fix it. So the illustration I use regularly with folks is, let's just pretend there's a table in front of us and we have some three by five cards, and you're just putting these things out on the table on three by five cards, and we're not gonna do anything with them right now. We're just putting them out there, and nobody else is gonna see these but you and me. And so to say if you don't acknowledge it yourself, and at least put it out there to another human being, chances are it's gonna fester at some level and turn into something much worse than what you're experiencing right now.

So I think curiosity actually is a skill that we don't employ all that much. You know, like we were talking about before, anger, bad, kill it, minimize it, reject it, cover over it, whatever. But what if you had that phrase, curiosity killed the cat, so obviously it wasn't good for the cat. I would argue it's good for humans for us to be curious. So what if we look at these three-by-five cards with all this emotion on them, and we just get curious about it. Like, what's that about? What's leading to that? You know, and when did that start? What might be contributing to you feeling that?

And so that's why I try, and walk with people just to get a little bit curious about it as opposed to making a value judgment on it. Because we can't see it for what it is until we get a little more objective in our framework and start looking at it, and just asking some questions. And that helps people dig a little bit deeper into some of the driving causes for that. And until you find that, until you understand that, it's not gonna remediate. You can't do anything about it. You know, you can't work towards resolution or healing or repair or making headway on these things until you understand that. I think that's, that's kind of the first order.

Stephanie Gutierrez: I like that because it's a switch from, like Why are you angry? To what are some things you're angry about? And that is a more curious approach, because if we're coming in like, why am I angry, and why? It puts you on the defensive, it makes you feel like there's something wrong with you. But when you, like you said, just even kinda switch that question and get curious, and let's just talk about that. It all of a sudden becomes safe. So what I'm hearing you say is whether it's in a counseling relationship or somewhere else, it's finding somebody where it's safe to talk about the things that you feel angry about, and not enter into judgment, because that's gonna close you down. And that is key. 

You referenced this a little bit earlier, but there's something usually underneath anger. I've heard it said that anger is often a secondary emotion. And there's usually something underneath. And so often it's fear.

Erik Troyer: We all want to know, we want to be secure. You know, we have this craving to know what's coming, know what's behind, know what's coming at us, you know? We want to be able to control our environment and understand whether we are safe. You know, and especially in the missionary lifestyle, there are just so many things that are out of your control. You know, there are so many things that you don't have any capacity to affect. And so it does increase that level of fear and anxiety, yeah, that can lead to significant amounts of anger because you just don't know how to process that. And I would say, yeah. Now, I think of maybe just a few areas where it is most difficult for a missionary to communicate.

So maybe a more nominal, more acceptable one would be driving, oh, the driving here just drives me crazy, you know? And man, it just makes me so angry, and everybody's like, yep, me too, and blah, blah, blah. And you can more easily talk about things like that, or the heat here, or those things. But I think about one's relationship with the Lord. Is it one that you may have periods where there's some anger, and you don't communicate it to the Lord? You don't communicate it to others. It just stays inside. 

I think of marriage, that's often a place where, I mean, a lot more frequently, people are more apt to communicate. I'm angry with my children or my extended family, but not always in a marriage. And so that's one where it's harder to find that right person to be able to communicate like, where am I really at, and what's going on inside? And then I think for some, you know, local relationships, with the people group that you're connected to because you've given up your whole life to move there, and that's what you're all about. Like, I can't say that I'm mad at them, or I'm mad at a certain element of the culture. 

And so anyways, there are some areas where it's just more difficult and you gotta find that right person that's able to enter into that conversation safely. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Absolutely. And I've heard it said that it is a response to a perceived injustice. And so, two questions I ask myself when I feel angry regularly are: Where is the perceived injustice here? And what am I afraid of?

 And I mean, I can use that even in a very simple thing. Like let's just say I'm in the morning having my Bible time with Jesus, and my sweet little daughter walks in and she's feeling anxious, so she's asking me questions about her day and who she's gonna see and who's gonna pick her up later, and all the things. I can begin to feel a little bit of a simmering anger. We don't like to say anger, as we say I feel a little frustrated. But that's just a spin on anger. So when I feel that, I think, what is the perceived injustice? Because it's like, what is the perceived injustice? Well, I feel like my time is being taken away from me. I want this time with Jesus, and I feel like she's taking something sounds awful, but I'm just being very vulnerable right now. That's what I feel, and then what is the fear? I mean, you just said it right now. A loss of control. Of being able to do what I want to do, what I feel I need to do. And how just making those things logical all of a sudden takes a little bit of the fizz out of the soda can of anger that I feel, I'm like, oh, that's what's going on here. And then I can go, okay, so I feel she's taking something away.

Now I can remind myself I serve an interruptible God, so I can be interruptible, and it is a Godly thing to be interrupted in my Bible time and respond well to her. So working with Jesus right now so I can correct my thinking. Doesn't mean it won't make it go away totally, but I am correcting my thinking enough to just bring that fizz down a little bit, remind myself I don't need to be afraid. God's not judging me because I'm not going to have as many minutes in my Bible time. After all, I've given some to her, and it has opened up other opportunities for me. So it's those two particular questions that have been helpful to me. 

Would you have anything else that you would add when someone finds themselves angry? What could be some steps they could take or questions they could ask to get their thinking in a healthy place?

Erik Troyer: Yeah, and as you were talking, the word expectation came to mind because so often it's, what do I expect out of this situation, out of this environment, out of this team, out of this mission experience, out of my ministry? I mean, we all have expectations about a lot of things, and sometimes we hold so fast to those expectations that when they are disrupted do we get, do we get rattled on the inside?

And oftentimes, obviously, anger is, is one of those expressions that comes out. But yeah, so I think that's something to keep in mind. Like, if we can take a more manageable, adaptable approach to life. And I know that this heavily leans into personality style. Some people are much more rigid and less adaptable than others, you know? And so, I mean, there's that, but personality is just personality. It is not a life sentence that you can only be that way. Like we can adapt and flex from our default personality. And so, when we do recognize that, yeah, this is not meeting my expectations, or I thought it was gonna be like this, and it is way over here in left field. Like, what do I do with that? And, how do I process that? Who do I process that with, and do I need to adjust my expectations or my assumptions about this? And, can I be okay with that? And they say, the one constant is change, right? And it's true, like life is a constant, how we go about that change, and how flexible and adaptable we are through that process. I think that is key.

Stephanie Gutierrez: And I love that you did reference personality there for a second. Like you said, it's not an excuse; it is helpful to understand what my default angry response is. Am I volatile in a sort of aggressive way? That's my natural default. It's not even aggressive, it's just like, do I respond a little bit more quickly, a little bit more assertively? Am I somebody who stuffs things, like, I'm not angry, I'm fine? Or somebody who's letting it slip out sideways? I mean, what do you do? And also, that can change with different people; sometimes we're comfortable being assertive. Maybe I'm comfortable being assertive with my. With my spouse, when I'm with leadership, I'm just very like, oh, everything is okay and everything's just fine, because that's not always the correct response, as you were saying.

I mean, like for me, I will own, more on the passive aggressive, less than that, like on the, I don't experience anger. I am not angry. I don't get angry. I am nice, I am friendly, I am peaceful. I am easy. I owned those as part of me. So I remember when I did a personality test and they told me I was in this gut triad, otherwise known as the anger triad. I was like, stop. That's ridiculous. Like I'm not angry. And then when I started reading about it, I was like, oh, I mean, honestly, it kind of scared me. I'm like, oh my gosh. I do get angry all the time. I'll stuff it down or whatever. Or I'll tell myself I'm not angry, or I'll make excuses for somebody else, and that's just kind of slowly accumulating inside of me until one day it bursts out. 

So I had to work on developing that assertive side of things. Standing up for myself, standing up for others. So, for our listeners, what is your default conflict style? Is it one that's like people pleasing, like, oh, I need to always make people, other people not upset with me because I don't wanna be upset. I mean, am I leaning towards people, moving towards them? Am I moving away from people running away and pretending I'm not angry? Or am I like confronting and being assertive with people? And when we know what our default is, not to judge ourselves for it, because sometimes that's an appropriate response. It's good to sometimes be assertive and sometimes leave the room, and sometimes, you do other things; it's not always good in each situation.

So what do we need to grow in? I need to become more assertive. Do I need to grow on like, closing my mouth and walking away? Do I need to grow in being kinder to other people and moving towards them, to make this environment a better place for both of us to have these conversations?

Erik Troyer: I think two words come to my mind, to boil it down, grace and truth. And I see it in the mission's world. Maybe even the larger world of Christendom. But specifically in the missions world, grace is very readily extended. And we lean heavily and hard on grace towards one another, but truth, not so much. Kind of back to your anxiety and fear element. If we share truthfully how we're feeling or how somebody hurt us, or how this relationship is being experienced by you, if we share that, what does that mean? What's it gonna happen, how are they gonna look at me, and are they gonna be mad, and is this gonna disrupt what we're doing or how we're doing it, and all of those things.

So, I would say maybe a better balance or application of that truth component is much needed in the missions community. Like I see the value, I preach the value, I try and live the value. But, to get back to the raw honesty, I don't always want the value, I want to just avoid and let it be, you know. But to lean into the uncomfortability, and say, no, I am called to live in grace. Yes, with those around me, but also in truth. And part of that truth is, is entering into things that are difficult conversations, and things that I don't know how they're gonna end, or I don't know what the result is gonna be. But it's right and it's good and I need to. Now, I think on the other side of that equation, for those who are maybe more inclined towards up in your face all the time with everything, I think, for them, maybe the encouragement is just the opposite. Okay. Maybe I don't need to be immediately leading out with truth, maybe in a finger-pointing fashion. Maybe I do need to have a little bit more graciousness in my approach in this relationship, or how I share these things. Not that you shouldn't share them, but like how I share them and in what setting do I share them, a nd the frequency of sharing them, you know? So, yeah.

Stephanie Gutierrez: That's a way of summing it up. Do I tend to lead with grace or truth, and which one could I afford to mix a little bit more in?

Erik Troyer: Yeah. Because we all tend to be skewed towards one or the other. So just knowing that, we're called to live out both of those in relationship. And I see on a personal level, but also on a little bit more macro level in teams. Over the years have done a lot of team conflict mediation cases, and I do so because I find value in people resolving some of these pain points, some of these tensions, of what they perceive as differences. And oftentimes it is just a matter of not understanding where the other person's coming from and some of those driving forces and factors, and not sharing honestly and authentically like what's really behind the scenes here.

You know, and it's very interesting. Once you allow people to see one another as the person that they are, and what's driving some of these fears and anxieties, and hurts, the kind of disillusionment and dissolving of some of those friction points, can begin to take place.

Stephanie Gutierrez: I'm glad you brought up teams because that's a space where a lot of frustration and anger exist. We're talking to a lot of leaders who listen to this, and if you're a leader, you have to be able to hold space for team members to feel anger. So what does that look like? If you are a leader who doesn't have a high tolerance for anger, it scares you, or it feels like a threat to your loyalty.

I mean, I've heard all those things said. And yet, if we're gonna be good leaders, we have to be able to create spaces to teach members how to appropriately express anger. That doesn't mean if I'm a great leader, I'm gonna let you scream at me, and be I mean, I can teach you how you can be angry and be appropriate and be respectful, but I gotta be able to hold that. Because I see way too I have seen way too many that equate anger with disloyalty, and it was none of those things. And, as a leader, if that threatens you somehow makes you uncomfortable at saying, Lord, how can you help me enlarge my capacity to receive somebody else's anger or frustration and be what they're saying that anger? That's a really good point, Eric.

Erik Troyer: Well, I think that's kind of the precursor to that, how do I handle somebody else's? How do I handle my own? If you’re a leader, I mean, you're bearing a lot, a next level of issues on your shoulder, you know? And so it is, am I in a spot where I am dealing with my internal world in healthy ways, to where I can absorb, take on, and help others through their own? Because if we're in a place of being frazzled, afraid, and just completely disoriented space emotionally, and we're about to lose it every day, and it's just up to here. You're probably not gonna be able to take on much from somebody else.

And, nor should they be expected to, honestly. I mean, we all have our limits, and we do have to deal with our stuff. So I think that's kind of the precursor question, as a leader, how am I dealing with my realities that both maybe personal life or work life, or team life? Then, if that is in a place where, okay, now I do have capacity. I think the question is now, how do I allow somebody else to come in, share, unpack, and then I can take that on? So yeah, right. I mean, we need to treat leaders with respect and human dignity. 

Now, that gets lost sometimes in the closest relationships, and I don't know why that is, but you think of a marriage and like husband and wife bickering, fighting one another, and assuming that the other's heard or spoken. I don't know. We would never treat another friend like that. Why would we treat our spouse like that? And I think the same applies sometimes to teams. Like we wouldn't treat a supporter like that. We wouldn't treat a national like that. We wouldn't treat somebody from a different organization like that. But we treat our team like, come on, let's, I mean, they're respectful, honorable people.

Let's treat them with dignity and invite them into conversation as opposed to attacking. Let's assume the best and that they have genuine, true good intentions driving their decisions rather than being accusatory, condemning, and that they're got it out for me, you know? And so just, yeah, it's never right for people to come in and attack. Right. 

And so I think a leader, it's a skillset more than a personality, but the skillset is how do I diffuse the current elevated anger. How do I invite them into conversation, and how do I let them know that I do care deeply about them and I want them to feel free to communicate, but it's gotta be done in a way that's not attacking, you know? Because I mean, none of us, none of us want to be controlled, and none of us wanna be attacked. You know, and so we all want to be treated with respect and honor, as we should, right? And so, a leader needs to have that skillset to be able to kind of welcome in the heightened emotion that might not have the proper constraints on it, and diffuse that in, in a way that allows for healthy conversation to take place. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yes. Okay. So as I'm listening to you, Eric, I'm thinking if somebody's going to talk to leadership and they're angry about something, they're looking for two things, which are coming up for me. They're looking for things or empathy for action. I want to be understood, heard, and empathized with. And I want action to be taken seriously. If something's wrong, if there's a perceived injustice that something has to happen, and I think if we have a leader who only offers empathy, acts like, Oh, you understand? Nothing ever changes, that's just gonna make somebody more angry. Then I think if we have a leader who shows no empathy and just has some type of action or reaction, it's like, of all, without empathy, they're not gonna take the right action, but you're not understanding your person.

Coming to you, the action is not going to be what that person's looking for. Think both are the case. And so as a leader, again, kind of asking myself, what is my default? Do I tend to empathize more, or do I tend or take some type of action? How can I be a leader who listens and takes action? And the action is not always what the person wants? So I wanna be careful to say that action is to not listen to everyone angry and do everything they want me to do, sometimes they're gonna want me to do things that are not appropriate or don't work, or insider information that I don't have, but still some type of action is appropriate, even if it's explaining to that person or it's asking them to trust you and say, I do hear you. There are things I cannot explain to you that are going on, but there is some type of empathizing and action that's happening. There is also this myth that only reactive or outwardly angry leaders hurt people. 

Now, I just wanna say again, you've seen this, people who have been every bit as hurt, an outwardly peaceful leader and kind, they didn't take action. And something was being done that was inappropriate; it was brought to the leader. Maybe that leader didn't protect them from somebody who was abusing them. The leader did not stand up for them at a time when it was appropriate. There was a weird conflict, and the leader didn't want to choose sides, so they just kind of brushed it away and left this thing in place. As a leader, you don't get a pass. If you are more passive by nature and kind and sweet, and I say that as somebody who's wired that way. So I feel like I can say it, guys, me and Eric, don't have a pass. 

Just because we are sweeter on the outside does not mean we can do every bit as much damage as somebody who and yelling. So I love that this is coming up from a leadership perspective, in how we deal with our anger. And how do we deal with the anger of others, and not just deal with it inappropriately? 

If you could just sit with a missionary leader right now who is like, and I don't care if they're outwardly angry, if they have this hidden anger that everybody knows about, but they think nobody does, whatever type of anger they're dealing with; what would be a suggested next step you would give to somebody who's like, I gotta do something? 

Erik Troyer: A genuine first approach is, you go to the Lord with it. Like that is the safest place that we have in this world. We don't know how others will handle what's on the inside, right? And, so that's what keeps us from doing that a lot of times is will they love me? Will they care for me? Will they think badly of me? You know, whatever, the question is, we don't know, but we do know our loving father, and we do know our savior who bore everything for us and wants the journey with us and has called us his and part of his family. And so we can enter into that. So that's the first order. Like you've gotta admit it to the Lord first before you enter into it with another person. Now he has built us for community, and we do need to do that with others. 

Also, I would say, maybe doing a little bit of a self-check before doing it with others. What is my purpose in doing this? Because it could be that I just need to vent and puke out my emotions somewhere. But what's the goal? Like what's the driving force for that? I mean, that feels good. It's cathartic, and it's a good purge of emotions. But what do I want out of this? Do I want to understand? Do I want healing? Do I want compassion? Do I want God to do a work in me through what I'm experiencing? And if that's the driving force, and you can maybe more fruitfully have those conversations with others because I can pray, I can come to you, Stephanie, and say, Hey, Stephanie, look, you're my friend. I'm going through something right now. I don't know what to make of it, and I'm about to lose my mind. And nobody knows, and I haven't shared this with anybody. But I don't want this, I don't want this part of my life tearing me up like this. Is there a time where we can get together where I could share some of this with you and just unpack it, and you could help me, like gain some perspective that I can't have by myself?

You know, like that, that gives you the clue in, like he's inviting me into that inner private world because he wants something different than what he's experiencing right now. You know? So whatever that safe person is, just, I think going in with an intentionality of why am I doing this? Do I just need a friend who's just gonna take it all and agree with me and say, yeah, you're right, and they're wrong, or this is bad, and I'm on your side? Well, I mean, that always feels good, but it doesn't lead to much growth, development, or change. And have a kind of a goal, of what you wanna engage with that person for.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Can I add just one more component to this discussion? So I think there's another side to when we blow it. Okay. And I didn't want to end without talking about this because we don't always do it right. I mean, we've been talking about how to do it in healthy ways, what's a proper right and approach to deal with our anger, but the reality is we're gonna mess up and we're gonna hurt others and we're going to blow it one way or another relationally.

Erik Troyer: So I think just as a real key point to keep in mind is that too is also an opportunity for growth. And, far too often, we're good at having that lash in our hands and just whipping ourselves on the back so we feel bad because of our thoughts or our feelings or our anger. And then I didn't do it right, or I blew up at this person, or I attacked them, or I stuffed it, and I didn't enter into it. Anyways, we take that lash and we just further beat up ourselves, and so just put that thing aside, and burn it. Get away with that thing and say, you know what? Even in the times when I don't do it right, how can that be leveraged for my growth, for the growth of this relationship, and for circling back around?

I think especially, and we haven't really talked about this, but especially in the realm of parenting, it often comes up. You know it's funny, my wife and I, we talk about it, we didn't know how selfish we were until we got married. And then we didn't know how angry we could get until we had kids. Right. And talk about your life being disrupted, but you just don't do everything right. And so as parents, we want to train our children, educate them, and teach them in the right ways, but they're human too. And they're gonna experience anger. They're gonna experience times where they don't do it right. So what happens when you don't? Do you come back around and say, Hey, I need to ask for your forgiveness for how I handled that. And can I have another go at that? Because I want us to do it in a great, healthy way, and I wanna make this right, you know?

And so that might be in a parenting context, that might be in a team context, it might be in a marriage context, or just a friend context, but it doesn't matter. Come back around and say, I mean, that's what forgiveness is for. We all need it. We all need forgiveness daily. Let's extend that to other people. Let's ask those other people, and let's reenter back into it. 

So anger is a.. It's like fire right in, in one regard. So yeah, we can, we can normalize it and say that it's just a human emotion like anything else. But wind and fire are very different in terms of their elements, but they're very different in terms of destructive impact, I mean, it just takes a little bit of fire, and boy, can you get burned. If you can take a lot of wind before it has a destructive impact, and so anger's kind of like that, yes, it is normative, but at the same time, boy, it can burn us and it can burn others if not handled and dealt with appropriately. 

So in those times where it does burn, where it does ask for forgiveness, extend forgiveness, and circle back around and let it be part of that redemptive process in your life, you know? And may it be used for good.

Stephanie Gutierrez: ​What a great note to end on. Eric. Thank you. We're just so thankful for all of you again, who just listened today, who are being vulnerable and open with yourself right now, wanting to take a look at, Hey, where's this, where's this coming from? What am I dealing with? And Lord, how can you bring some healing to me in this area? How can I experience anger in a way that's God honoring and that's healthy, and be honest with myself, but not use it to hurt others or to hurt myself? So Eric, thank you for speaking into that today, and for all of you missionary listeners, we believe that God is going to do a new thing in you. This is gonna be the start of something new, so bring it to God because you might be angry with him. He's not angry with you. You and he can take however big of emotions you've got. He's got you. He's got you.

 So thank you again, Eric, so much for joining us.