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Modern Day Missionaries
The “Modern Day Missionaries” podcast discusses topics that affect the lives of Christian missionaries on the mission field in the areas of faith, freedom, family, and finances. It is produced by "Modern Day Missions" and hosted by Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez.
Each episode in the “Modern Day Missionaries” podcast is a conversational interview where Stephanie hosts guests who are experts in their fields and who either are or have been missionaries, or who serve in the missions space. At Modern Day, we want to help missionaries be their very best so they can give their very best!
Learn more about "Modern Day Missions" https://www.modernday.org/
Modern Day Missionaries
S07E12 Team Conflict on the Mission Field with Dr. Janeen Davis (Encore Episode)
Unresolved team conflict is one of the biggest reasons missionaries decide to leave the mission field prematurely. How can we grow in this critical area? Dr. Janeen Davis has made it her life's work to help teams actively pursue peace. She joins us to uncover the myths and attitudes we unconsciously hold about conflict resolution that keep us miserable and without solutions. Learn about the Peace Pursuit model and find out steps we can take to begin the hard but rewarding work God calls us to of making peace.
Thanks for listening! Email us your questions at care@modernday.org
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[00:00:00] Stephanie Gutierrez: Welcome to Modern Day Missionaries, a podcast by Modern Day about missions created for missionaries by missionaries. I'm your host, Stephanie Gutierrez.
Today we are delving into conflict resolution team conflicts. One of the biggest reasons for missionaries leaving the field and Dr. Janeen Davis joins us to uncover the myths and attitudes we all unconsciously hold regarding conflict resolution that keep us miserable and without solutions. She shares her peace pursuit model and gives us steps. We can begin the hard, but rewarding work of making peace.
Welcome to this episode of the Modern Day Missionaries podcast. Today I'm so excited to have Dr. Janeen Davis with us. Janeen, in 2007, moved to Asia and served an overseas mission. We're gonna get to hear a little bit of her story. And while she was there, she specialized in providing member care support to other believers and supervised a large team of pastoral and clinical counselors. Janeen is a marriage and family therapist; she's a doctor of psychology and her expertise lies in the area of relational conflict. She's currently based in Nashville where she continues to serve Christian missionaries and Christians abroad doing virtual counseling. She does workshops and it's all focused around the area of conflict resolution, biblical style.
That's the kind that we like and really how to build healthy team dynamics. Janeen and I have talked several times and had fascinating conversations, and I'm really looking forward to our conversation because we're gonna be talking about it. Team conflict; it's something that we hear about all the time. I know this is something that really gets missionaries off the field and if we can get it right, I think it's gonna be a game changer for us and the people we serve.
So, Janeen, at what point did you get interested in conflict resolution and peacemaking to the point that you ended up going to graduate school and getting a PhD and further education in that area?
[00:01:56] Dr. Janeen Davis: Yeah, I definitely was not an educated type of person growing up. I was interested in music and the arts and all of that kind of stuff and really didn't think of myself as an academic whatsoever. But I was very interested in trying to better understand relationships and those interpersonal dynamics and why things sometimes take unexpected, horrible turns and all that kind of stuff. Just seeing difficulties that had occurred even within my own family context, my family of origin; I just wanted to understand. I was interested in that subject matter in a way that I wasn't interested in algebra, for example, and so it just felt a lot more relevant to me. I've always loved to read and I just was trying to read for the sake of understanding something that felt pressing in my life and, and relationships.
Also at the same time, my second year over in Asia, the rest of my very small team had kind of finished their time overseas, and I was essentially by myself doing village work during a reorganization where I was very much forgotten and slipped through the cracks. And so I had wonderful, sweet, local friends, but I was also in another way, very, very isolated. And so thinking about a desire to find a sustainable, healthy way to live and serve overseas long term.
So initially I didn't know what it was, but I was just looking for what kind of role could I be in long term that would allow me to be in a healthy situation and not isolated in a random village. And so I called back to the states and started asking, “Hey, so what is member care and how would that work? And could I do that?” And so it just seemed like the right fit.
So I was encouraged to go get clinical training in counseling, and that would take about three years. And they said it would take them at least as long to convince the organization to take a chance on a wild card like me and let a single woman travel around without being accompanied by anyone. So that's exactly what happened. And I got the training and it was a wonderful fit. And along the way, I had the chance to go do a practicum and spend six months in the back country of Oregon doing wilderness therapy with like really angry teenagers that were telling me how they're gonna kill me in the middle of the night. And then later on, three weeks later, they're hugging me and like “this has changed my life.” And just powerful stuff like that. And, then along the way ended up back in Nashville again at Vanderbilt for part of my training. And so it was a beautiful season of growing and learning for me.
And along the way in my organization, a lot of things were happening where the door did end up opening up for me to go back on the field as the first person ever appointed directly to do this thing called member care, which is to be on the field providing care and support to our other personnel. And they let me do it and one of the teams just happened to be the Asia team that was willing to take a chance on me, so I got to come back and that allowed me to continue to go back to my village regularly every year. I continued to maintain those relationships just within the context of my work. So that was really what drove me into that area of conflict, which surprisingly, was not something I was interested in at all. In fact, I found it to be the topic that I wanted the least to do with because it had the worst outcomes.
So when I was doing member care, I was very happy to work with people struggling with anxiety, because that's so treatable and I kind of got my systems out. I'm like, “All right, we'll crank this out six sessions and you're gonna be so happy. You'll be so surprised at how much life can change in a short amount of time. But I don't want any conflict cases. Because that's just like, people always get in trouble and everyone's mad and tense and we don't know what we're doing.” It's just like, put everyone in a room and let 'em cage match. Like fight it out and see who survives and I don't want anything to do with that. That's horrible. I like to feel successful. I didn't like completely giving up my worldly ways. Like I wanted to have good outcomes and so I don't want to deal with conflict cases. That's how I felt about it.
The irony of all ironies is along the way I ended up becoming the supervisor of the entire Asia region. So I was overseeing later on the member care team that I was so lucky to have even been allowed to be a part of not that many years before. Someone on my team had gone to a training where they heard about this biblical model of conflict resolution called Peace Pursuit. It's basically just this piece of paper. They handed me this paper; it's just like a one page front and back. That's all it is; it's not like this complicated thing. And that's probably why it's so effective, especially for someone like me. It was like, “Look at all the colors and there's graphics and I don't have to like to sit down and read boring stuff. Awesome. Maybe this will work.” And I started digging into it and meeting the person who had created it. Also someone on the field because it was made in cross-cultural situations. It's a biblical model, it's not a western model, it's not an American model. It's not using “I feel" statements, you know, it's not a model that involves a premise that conflict is simply insufficient, like communication skills or something like that. No, it really gets to the heart issues and I'm all about heart issues.
So I started exploring it and utilizing it with our personnel. And then all the leaders were like, “Okay, Janeen, apparently you've got this new fangled idea that ‘We can fix any conflict in the world now,’ so here's the worst conflicts where these teams are already gonna split. Best case scenario, maybe they'll be willing to shake hands before they part ways, forever. Come in and fix it.” And you know, I'm just ridiculous enough to have said, “Okay, I will,” and just showed up. And initially in that first year of really trying to implement this biblical model every single time, I'm seeing that every single time, not only did we get shockingly good outcomes, but at least once someone used the word miracle.
[00:08:33] Stephanie Gutierrez: Wow.
[00:08:34] Dr. Janeen Davis: And that's the difference between every secular model that I had studied, and this model that relies on God. God's gonna show up; like we are gonna trust that God's gonna show up. That we're gonna base the model on, God actually is gonna do what he said he's gonna do. We're going to stop relying on our power and our communication strategy strategies and our ability to negotiate win-win solutions. We're gonna stop relying on that and actually depend on the Holy Spirit to be the one that draws his people into peace. And we're gonna actually stop looking for peace based on getting what we want and start seeking peace from the Prince of Peace. And it changed. It has changed. It has been this really significant season in my life.
Maybe after that first season of going overseas and really encountering God in a way I'd never experienced before, where I have come to know God and myself in him differently than ever before. It's not just been a conflict resolution model, it's been a discipleship model and for me, it really allowed me to change my understanding of who I am and him. And what is the basis of my wellbeing in life, and, and discover that it's actually not about how much fun I'm having moment to moment, though that is my instinct. And it's not about getting my way though. I often think my way is the best way though, but even then my wellbeing, my ability to be at peace not just in my own heart and with others is not dependent on those things, on circumstances or on others giving me what I want anymore. And it's just reoriented my whole life around the Lord in a way that is beyond what I'd experienced before.
And so that's why I got so passionate about it that I ended up doing my doctoral research on it, and going deeper and deeper and deeper.
[00:10:49] Stephanie Gutierrez: Every missionary listening is like, “Please tell me this biblical model.” So I for sure, for sure want to ask you about that. But before I even ask that. I wanna ask, what is one of the things that people most get wrong about conflict resolution? What might be a myth people have or a wrong assumption?
[00:10:58] Dr. Janeen Davis: Man, there's a couple that comes to my mind immediately. And so in no particular order first I will say the Matthew 18 myth, which proposes that the passage in Matthew 18, which is our model for church discipline that says, whenever a brother sends against you, go directly to him and, and show him his fault. And if he repents, you've won your brother.
This is many teams and many individuals' entire model for conflict resolution and that is so problematic. You cannot just have Matthew 18 be your whole model for conflict resolution first, because it presumes that every time you're offended someone else has sinned. And what I have found is most of the time when we're offended by others it is just because we didn't get our way; and that even in itself might have just offended people. But that is the heart of it, when we think of a conflict and we think of an offense in terms of an epic battle of good and evil that we must overcome. And now evil has risen up against us and we, the hero of the story, need to overcome the villain and win for the sake of all that is good and right. Well that makes it really hard to seek peace because it feels like we're kind of compromising what is right and good in this world and that kind of goes along with this Matthew 18 mentality, which is that every time I'm offended, the solution is that I should go and show the other person their sin. and that then if they repent, well then I've won my brother and what a good person I've been today. And so that is one myth. I could unpack that for hours, but I'll know, let you think about that for a second.
Another myth that I've kind of hinted at already based on what was at least previously commonly understood as the best practice, is that with enough time and pressure, peace will result. False. We put everybody in a room and say, “Nobody leaves till you work this out.” That is not how peace is achieved, it is not like, “Just put more pressure on it and then just don't relent.” A lot of times when there's an audience, people dig in more because now they don't wanna be seen as weak. So they're maybe even less likely to be willing to apologize or repent or forgive if someone else is watching. And so the more people we put in the room and the more pressure we put on it, actually the harder we're making it for people to achieve peace, and yet that is such a common practice is like, let's all just sit down and hash it out together in a group.
[00:13:45] Stephanie Gutierrez: So, I've even seen that happen in marriage. Another kind of misinterpretation of a verse is “Don't let the sun go down on your wrath.” And I remember in the beginning of our marriage, trying to hash everything out and it'd be 2:00 AM and we hadn't figured it out, so we had to keep going until we fell asleep. And that did not work because we just got more crazy and more tired and more strung out as the night went on. And then I realized, “Okay, don't let this go down your wrath, so just take a deep breath, pray, be at peace, get some good sleep, and talk lucidly again in the morning.” But again, like you said, that idea of just pushing through that's not what you're saying, what I'm saying is not against scripture, it's just saying, “Hey, can we see the heart of the law versus the letter of the law.” What's the heart of the law? What was Jesus trying to say in Matthew 18? What is being said behind these verses and when are we taking them and applying them in such a rigid way that is actually making things worse?
[00:14:42] Dr. Janeen Davis: Absolutely. Well, what we see in scripture is that there are actually three different biblical options for how to respond to an offense. Yes, we have the go verses that tell us to go and in love, speak truth to someone for their sake and for the sake of the relationship and for holiness, yes, that is an option. That is one way to respond in certain circumstances, but we also see lots of don't go verses that say it's to your benefit to overlook an offense and be slow to anger and blessed.
Like, what about those verses that sometimes we just don't even consider that it would be appropriate for me to just overlook it. I don't actually have to get mad and that's a whole different rabbit trail in a way, in terms of how necessary it is for me to be personally angry and offended in order to address something in someone else's life. I don't actually have to be mad or offended in the first place, yet I sometimes think that is unavoidable. The effect of someone else doing wrong is that I had no choice but to be deeply offended and hurt and angry, and then out of that anger, “Now I need to go and show you your sin.” And that's the part that, at least in my life, has completely changed because I know what it feels like to feel controlled by someone else's behavior where someone else does something and it has an impact on your life and therefore it kind of robs you of your peace. And I think that's what I mean when I say I have learned that I think God wants to play a much greater role in our lives where he is the determining factor of whether I'm at peace or not, not anyone else. And that's something that now I've just learned to ask people is how much power do you give anyone else in this world? To control and dictate your ability to walk in the peace that God says he himself is providing.
I think that makes me think about one of the themes of freedom. You know, if we feel like other people around us, even important relationships in our lives are the things that control our peace, then that's not freedom. because that means that I have handed over my wellbeing, my access to abundant life, my access to joy and hope exceeding, abundant joy that Christ says we find in him. And now I've handed that over to another person and just hope, “I'll just cross my fingers and hope that they let me have the joy that I find in Christ, but kind of that is in their power to give or withhold.” And I think that's a really challenging thing to discover is that we have really given other people authority over our wellbeing instead of Christ. And he's in there and he plays a role, but he's not the determining factor in if I have a good or bad day, that's completely up to my circumstances. And I think that if we can feel convicted about that and start really fighting to look to Christ for our wellbeing and then respond to others, not out of anger or hurt or offense, but genuinely out of love, because now we realize, “I'm good. Christ has everything I need, so my needs are met by him. And when I'm hurt, I go to him for healing, like the healer for healing. And I go to the prince of peace for my peace. So now when I'm coming to my brother, if I do need to show him his fault, I'm not coming with needs. That I need that person to meet and I need to show them how much they hurt me and I need them to understand and I need so much from this other person for me to be okay.” That's false. That is not like God has given us so much more than that, you know?
And so if we can really let God be all that He is to be in our lives, then we're able to go to one another in that peace, in that freedom where I don't need anything from you. So if I'm sharing something with you, even if I'm showing you your fault, it's a gift of love and your response then is not gonna determine my wellbeing. Your response truly is between you and the Lord.
[00:19:08] Stephanie Gutierrez: This is interesting listening to Janeen, because you're talking about peace between being between me and God; and so me doing my work with him to get to that place of peace and then going to my brother or my sister, and you're saying, hold up before you ever get to that person, there's something you gotta do.
[00:19:33] Dr. Janeen Davis: You're right. That is what I'm saying. I think that's the extra part that even if we're following a Matthew 18 model, it doesn't say, “Definitely don't go to God first.” And yet we just assume, well, “But it didn't say that, so we didn't do that.” We just went to the other person directly first without praying, without cooling off. Without slowing down however long we've been awake in the middle of the night, whatever, right? Like, no, we just went. Because we didn't even think to consider, “Am I currently exuding the fruit of the spirit right now as I go? No, but you know, that's not my fault because they did something first.” And we start to even put our walk with the Lord and our obedience to God in someone else's hands as like this reactive thing.
And yet, this shift is, first and foremost, about who God is to you. Is He everything? Is He the foundation, or are your daily circumstances, other people's treatment of you, or other people giving you your way essentially the things that you feel passionate and convicted about, believing that this is the right way, the best way, the good way, and if other people don’t give it to you, then you're miserable? Like, wow, if that's how you're living, then where does God fit? Like, “He’s just nothing. He’s like a side dish or something.” But if He’s everything, then we are free.
And so, yeah, it really does come down to spending. I mean, if I were going to put time on it, if someone is wrestling through a significant conflict and they’re in ministry, I’m not talking about, like, this cultural Christianity thing. I’m talking about hardcore professional Christians. Okay, like, I will make fun of us and call us that. But like, okay, we’re professionals at this, right? So we’re all in, right? Theoretically.
And in that case, people will easily spend three hours working through that first. Just the front page of that Peace Pursuit Guide, which is really just a structured time of sitting with the Lord and genuinely trying to listen through his word to what he has to say to change our hearts in the way that we are thinking about something. It's not to justify what the other person did. It's to change our hearts and reestablish him as the King of Kings in our lives and the source of all of our hope, all of our joy, all of our wellbeing is in him. And during that time, our hearts can soften toward the other person and we can start to experience compassion in the way that Jesus had compassion on us, which is not to be blind to someone's faults, to see it as a fault to see their faults and love them anyway,
[00:22:21] Stephanie Gutierrez: Would you be willing to go through some of those steps with us?
[00:22:24] Dr. Janeen Davis: Sure. I mean, not that this isn't like a prop. I just literally always have these Peace Pursuit materials on hand. And so the first question right here at the top of the paper, I should just say, if you go to peacepursuit.org at the top of every page, you can quickly just download this in 20 different languages, so I'm not trying to reference some elusive resource. This is all over the place. And the question at the very top is, “Do you want to resolve a relational problem?”
[00:23:00] Stephanie Gutierrez: Okay. And I said this to you when we were talking the other day. I go, “Well, Janeen, everybody wants to resolve conflict. Who wants conflict in their life?” And you say to me, “But do they really?” And I was like, wait, wait, say more.
[00:23:11] Dr. Janeen Davis: I say, this is profound. And then I say such a simple question that does not sound profound whatsoever. “Do you want to resolve a relational problem?’ And yet, what we realize after we give the quick, obvious answer of, “Yes, of course I do. That's why I'm here,” or that's what people say to me.”That's why I'm talking to you, Janeen. Yes, I want to resolve a relational problem.” And then what we do is slow down and unpack that because, usually, what we believe is the way to resolve a relational problem is to find some way of helping the other person: (A) see what they did that was so wrong, (B) recognize the hurtful consequences of their behavior on us, and then (C) repent. And as a result of those things happening, that’s how you resolve relational problems. I
[00:24:04] Stephanie Gutierrez: With the assumption that I am right and the other person is wrong. So that's where people are starting from oftentimes when they come to you.
[00:24:11] Dr. Janeen Davis: So not just when they come to me.There's so many, like cognitive biases. We could attach labels to this. But yes, like our very way of understanding our lives and the course of our lives tends to place us in our own autobiographical narrative as the hero of our story, which means that when someone opposes me, they are by default the villain of the story. So when we wanna resolve a relational problem, we assume that means we accomplish that by helping the other person repent and apologize, and then allow us to then forgive them. And that is how you resolve a relational problem.
And so that's what we're working so hard to do. So a lot of times I'll just ask a question that is intended to shake all that up, and I will say, “Okay, do you want peace or do you want to win?” And just let us sit with the tension of those things, because oftentimes one will come at the cost of the other, both directions. And if people are honest, if they're faced with that kind of a dichotomy, then they have to admit, “I want to win, I want peace by winning.” Peace is conditional upon me winning, and so even that just changes everything when we realize what it would mean to pursue peace and stop trying to win and just let that go. And another part of it, that in and of itself is just so powerful and it really challenges people, because sometimes people don't like to admit, “I wanna win. I don't want peace.” But what they will say is, “They need to admit what they did was wrong though.” Like, it's very difficult to just allow God to be the one to deal with someone else and release them into his hands. And yet John Eldridge wrote a book I think in 2019, called Get Your Life Back. And in that he presents idea of benevolent detachment that has been so powerful of a concept for me to introduce to people as I'm working them in counseling, which kind of works against this whole codependent way of understanding life, which is I can't be happy until this other person is happy or I can't be at peace unless this other person gives me what I need, which is an apology and a sincere one. And just learning how to release other people to the Lord and not feel like I can't be at peace with this because that other guy thinks they're right or they think they won or they got away with it. It's like we feel like we are our brother's keeper in that way. Like, I can't allow that outcome like honestly that's sometimes at play in our relationships. And so realizing like, “I don't need to allow or not allow it, that is, is between them and the Lord.” And even just recognizing, the way that we respond in those moments is not ultimately about that moment or about that other person. Our response to trials of various kinds is ultimately a reflection of our relationship with the Lord, period. That's what is, is revealed in the way that I respond to an offensive moment.
[00:27:48] Stephanie Gutierrez: As I listen to you, I'm thinking there's so many times where there is conflict and you can see things from both sides. I have this type of personality, speaking of personality, I'm in Enneagram nine, which if anybody knows anything about that, means I can see just both sides of the story so easily. So it's very easy for me to imagine that I'm in the wrong. My dad used to sing a song to me when I was a little girl, he'd go, “You might be right, or I might be right, or we both might be wrong,” so I grew up with that little ditty in my head. So this was my little song, and so that's easy for me to imagine in the vast majority of situations, but I'm imagining people who are listening right now and they're going, “Okay, Janeen. Like I get that in a lot of situations. Sure. There might be a perspective that I'm missing. Sure. I might be wrong. What happens though, when it feels black and white?” And I'm gonna say "feel”, because I don't wanna decide what that is for somebody, but like, “It feels like evil is being done to me”. And like you were mentioning earlier, “I want to make sure this isn't done to somebody else. I wanna make sure that this stops, and this goes beyond conflict. This is a leader that is abusing people spiritually or whatever. How do I handle a conflict that feels grave?”
[00:29:03] Dr. Janeen Davis: Yeah. This is not unfamiliar territory for me, I literally have been on two calls earlier today with people in different parts of the world that are dealing with situations where they would say those exact words, “How do I deal with a leader whose harmful behavior feels very serious and grave, and I can't let it go; like it wouldn't be right to let it go.”
And that is sadly often not as uncommon as we wish it was. It is not unheard of. It is common and between believers one thing I will say is anything that I do will be more effective if I get right with the Lord first. And I'm not trying to say that because you have experienced another person and their issues and you see it and have even been harmed by it, that you're not right with the Lord. But I will say that when we take up an offense against another person, that's one step further because I can see someone's issues; I can even see a leader that should not be in leadership. We can even say, and I can see that for what it is, and realize that's about that, not about me. But when I make it about me, when I personalize it, that means that I feel like that has the power to threaten me to some degree.
And it may threaten my circumstances. It may threaten to take me out of a situation that I didn't wanna be taken out of because I might need to leave. And so I can be sad about that, but again, like really entrusting my wellbeing to Christ alone is so essential and I think we have to fight for that. First, we have to just remind ourselves like, “Wait a second, no one can take me out of the palm of his hand. I know who I am. I know who I am in him, and I am secure in that. That is solid. That is unshakeable.” We have to just reground ourselves in that truth and go through that process. I think of forgiving as in to stop holding it in my hand and just rehearsing their guilt again and again and again in our minds because if we approach problems in that way, we are less effective. And we're kind of complicit in the situation, that we're not right with the Lord at that point. We're violating commands like, “Do not judge one another,” and that rehearsal of someone's guilt, I think that's what that means to judge one another, and that's not the same thing as to acknowledge someone's sin, and address it out of love; that's the compassion side of things where I see the fault and then I respond in love.
And sometimes love is drawing other people's attention to it and trying to address it in a productive way, and that's loving. But if I'm doing it out of love, it's more effective and it's communicated differently and it actually is far more likely to be received by the other person than if I'm doing it out of my own reaction and my own sense of offense. How I've personalized it, and now it's about me and how it affected me, and out of that I'm responding. So, I think it's important for us to spend time with the Lord on that and just allow him to be our healer and allow him to help us just prayerfully and humbly think about what's the right way to address this issue now. Not for my sake, but for the sake of the kingdom, for the sake of this person, and the local church around and ministry and whatever else is happening.
And what we see even in secular research is that when there are those kinds of concerns, problems, we could even bring in all the pop culture words like toxic work environment and those kinds of things. We will be far more effective at addressing it if we are right in the relationship first, and that doesn't have to be achieved through a conversation with the other person. That is, again, like this comes down to my heart before the Lord, and a lot of the work that I do with people is looking at the process of forgiveness as a vertical process. That's the other part of Matthew 18.
Later in Matthew 18, the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant was just so strongly revealed that our forgiveness really has nothing to do with the other person and everything to do with the forgiveness we've received. It's a response to God, not the offense. And so when we are responding to the Lord and just fixing our eyes back on him and seeing, “Here's what he's done for me, and as a response to that, I freely forgive others because I'm operating in gratitude and just orienting myself in identity in him.” From there, everything I do is more effective. And so what I would say on the secular side of things is that when what we call task or process conflicts, when they escalate into a relationship, they must be addressed first before we can go back and then address those task or process differences. And so to say it in a more just complete and biblical way, we would say that, “I've gotta forgive in my heart and get right just vertically in my attitude toward that person before the Lord. And just release this desire in me to enact justice and make them see and get the apology,” and just like really that benevolent detachment, like place them before the Lord and entrust them to him in that way. And then humbly figure out like, “Okay, so what's my right and loving response out of this situation, not because of what I need, but because my needs are now met in Christ, but now for the sake of the kingdom and the gospel and out of love for this person. How do I address this in the most effective way possible?” And then maybe that does mean escalating it or bringing in some other people to look at it. But now my motives are different, which means I'm gonna get much better outcomes. And the way I go about it and the way I communicate everything else is different. When I get right in my own heart before the Lord,
So that's how I would respond to that. I wouldn't say, “Well, you know, don't address it or just get over it and be at peace with yourself and don't ever have problems with anyone in the world that's not loving either.” You know, it's not loving to see someone in a pit and be like, “Hmm, you know, I don't wanna really point that out. It's kind of awkward. I'll just go on my way.” Like sometimes loving is to acknowledge the problem in front of you and offer to help the best you can. And we do that more effectively when we're not making it about us.
[00:36:03] Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. Well I appreciate what you've shared today because I mean, we could talk about this for hours. There's so many angles and so many things we could talk about. So we just hit the beginning of this. So for people who wanna know more, absolutely head on over to your website, which we'll post in the show notes you mentioned earlier, and we encourage people to keep digging in.
So to kind of summarize, what would be one practical step that a missionary can put into practice today? If they've got a conflict with somebody, what is one small step they can take based on what you said today to begin that process?
[00:36:34] Dr. Janeen Davis: One small step would be to remind themself that the way that that person is acting and behaving is about them, not me. And really just get some healthy distance and not make everything so personal. Then of course, the other step is, just run to the Lord with your hurt and let him be the only one that really can heal those deep wounds of our heart and fill us up and remind us who we are.
[00:37:04] Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. Well thanks for getting us on the right road there. I think, again, like we were saying earlier, conflict just makes you think, “What step do I need to take? What do I need to do?” And you're saying, “Okay, reroute that action from pointing forward to pointing inward and upward and taking it before the Lord and and looking there.” So thank you for getting us on the right page with that.
And you know, Jean, I was thinking through a question I usually ask people in the beginning that I totally forgot to ask you, because I was just already getting so into this. But what is a book that you're reading or would recommend? And you brought up Get Your Life Back by John Eldridge, and I was like, what a perfect book. I love that one. And that concept of benevolent detachment is so key. So I would encourage everybody to read that amazing book. Any other books you wanna throw in there?
[00:38:08] Dr. Janeen Davis: If you really wanna challenge these perspectives about life and what it's like to be offended and the power that has over us, there's a book called Unoffendable that is really thought-provoking and shocking in some ways that I really love. Yeah, I'll throw that one out there. And actually right now, if we were being literal about what book I'm reading right now, I've got Humility by Andrew Murray on my desk here that I'm reading, and I'm about to dig into the Wing Feather Saga. I think it's like a young adult allegory, I don't know, but I'm down for it. I can't wait. I've heard nothing but good things, so I'm not always trying to be impressive with what I'm reading. I just wanna hear a good story and a new framework for understanding the deeper things.
[00:38:56] Stephanie Gutierrez: Thanks for sharing it all because yes, I know when that question is asked, I think sometimes my knee jerk reaction or other people would be like, what is the smartest book I'm reading that will impress people when I share it? So I love that you shared what you're actually reading too. Yeah. That's so great.
Janeen, thank you again for coming on today. I mean, this just makes me wanna ask you so many more questions, but I appreciate that you gave a starting point. Sometimes people will skip ahead and get to all these practical steps you can take without it really addressing the heart of the issue. And unless we do what you talked about today, nothing else is going to work.
I just appreciate that. So anything else people can do to get in contact with you or find information that you're putting out there? I know you speak at events and workshops. It's where I first met you, you're speaking at a mission conference and I was like, this is good stuff.
[00:39:43] Dr. Janeen Davis: Yeah. My favorite is team training, whether it's on the field or now more and more in the states, like stepping into a church staff or a ministry team or an overseas team and really digging into what we need to wrap our hearts around, and then how do we practically carry this out on the ground level? I mean, I love that kind of stuff, but maybe it's good to know that The Peace Pursuit tool is available as an interactive app. So if anybody doesn't wanna download a PDF or deal with paper, it's now on in the App Store and in the Google Play Store. You just look up Peace Pursuit and I spent the last year of my life learning how to make an app, which I don't ever wanna do again. But, you know, I think it's totally worth it because now it's such a more accessible way to just step right into that tool without knowing anything else about it, and really enter into that time with the Lord. So I think that's probably worth mentioning.
[00:40:43] Stephanie Gutierrez: That's fantastic. Yes it is. And we'll post that well. So, thank you again everybody. We are wishing for peace and I was gonna say conflict free weeks. When has there ever been a conflict free week in people's lives? But we wish you success in your journey towards peacemaking with others. And first of all, finding freedom with the Lord. So have a wonderful rest of your week, Janeen, thank you again so much. And for everybody else, we will see you on our next episode.
