Modern Day Missionaries

S07E02 Help for Stressed Out Missionaries with Kristi Gaultiere

• Kristi Gaultiere • Season 7 • Episode 2

Share episode

Are you feeling overwhelmed, unsure if your stress is too much—or maybe not enough? Wondering how to find a healthy rhythm for the demands of missionary life?

In this episode, Dr. Kristi Gaultiere joins us to unpack the reality of stress and how it impacts missionaries uniquely.

We look at the difference between healthy and unhealthy stress, how to recognize the signs of being "stressed in" or "stressed out," and what adrenaline addiction is and how it can quietly sabotage your life and ministry.

Discover how to align your rhythms with Jesus’ easy yoke and cultivate a sustainable, grace-filled approach to life and mission.

If you’re ready to learn how to thrive under pressure without burning out, this conversation is for you!

Thanks for listening! Email us your questions at care@modernday.org

Website · YouTube · Facebook · Instagram · TikTok · X · LinkedIn

Welcome to Modern Day Missionaries, a podcast by Modern Day Missions created for missionaries by missionaries. I'm your host, Stephanie Gutierrez. 

[00:00:09] Stephanie Gutierrez: Ever feel like stress is running your life, or maybe you're not feeling enough of it to stay motivated? Today, I'm talking with Dr. Kristi Gaultiere about the unique stress missionaries face. We'll dive into recognizing unhealthy stress, avoiding the trap of adrenaline dependence and finding a healthy grace-filled rhythm by walking with Jesus. If stress has been weighing on you, this episode will give you the hope and tools you need. 

Hey podcast listeners, before we get started, I wanted to let you know about a special offer that Dr. Kristi Gaultiere and Soul Shepherding have created for our podcast listeners for you. And that is a 50% off discount for your first session of spiritual direction with any of their spiritual directors. 

So they created an exclusive code. It is MDMPODCAST. And so if you head on over to their www.soulshepherding.org, and sign up for a spiritual direction session, just enter the code MDMPODCAST and you'll receive 50% off of your first spiritual direction session. And if you don't know what spiritual direction is, hang tight, you're about to find out. So with that, let's jump into today's episode with Dr. Kristi Gaultiere.

[00:01:24] Stephanie Gutierrez: Welcome to this episode of the Modern Day Missionaries podcast. Today you're in for a treat. We have my friend, Dr. Kristi Gaultiere with us. This is the third time we've had her on the podcast because she's brilliant. She and her husband, Bill, are psychotherapists, doctors of psychology, and they lead a nonprofit called Soul Shepherding that really just invests in the health of people in ministry and specifically pastors and missionaries.

And they're amazing. And today we're talking with Kristi about stress from a ton of different angles. You know, what is a good amount? Is it good at all? Is there too much? Is there not enough? How can we manage it wisely? And she has just some great insights to share. 

Bill and Kristi are also authors. So you can find all their materials online. They've written books like Journey of the Soul and Healthy Feelings, Thriving Faith, and you'll want to check out their ministry called Soul Shepherding. So today, get ready for this conversation with Kristi Gaultiere on Missionaries and Stress.

Kristi, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast.

[00:02:20] Kristi Gaultiere: Oh, Stephanie, it's an honor and a joy to be with you and the missionaries and ministers that are tuning in.

[00:02:28] Stephanie Gutierrez: We are so glad to have you and I know you mentioned you’re a little hoarse today and still you joined us even with that. And so thank you. You are our, I was also noticing…you and I were talking beforehand…you are the only person we've had three times on the podcast. So we like you over here at Modern Day and, and just love every time that you come in, the things that you have to share are so valuable. So thank you. 

And then today's topic on stress, I think is a good one, but you know, Kristi, before we get started, I have a confession to make. I was just remembering this before we talked years ago, back when I was in my early twenties, I remember writing an article for one of our small group newsletters on how stress wasn't real. I think I had read somewhere that like stress was all in our minds, and I really wanted to believe it because it made me feel like I was more in control. You know, ironically, I'm pretty sure I was stressed out of my mind at the moment and was trying to convince myself that I wasn't. So I have since repented from that and have also lived a lot of life since then.

I'm going to make up for that error right now by just inviting you to share with us in your professional opinion as a doctor of psychology, Kristi, tell us, is stress real?

[00:03:50] Kristi Gaultiere: Stress is very real and I will say stress is not always bad. There are positive stresses. And there are negative stresses, but stress is a part of life. And we just need to accept that. I mean, part of why I am hoarse today is because I've come through a time, a season where there was just a lot of activity with Christmas.

We're here January 9th, today. So, Christmas, New Year's, there's a month in December where we try to squeeze in a whole lot of extra things on top of an already full life and we can't do it without feeling some stress and all that. So, obviously my case, it affected my body. I got sick. Thankfully I'm feeling good, but I still have the effects. My body's still healing and recovering because there was extra stress on me.

[00:04:42] Stephanie Gutierrez: And I appreciate you saying it that way because I think sometimes we think the goal is to eliminate all stress from our minds and bodies and life and try and live this zen, peaceful, floating through the waves. I don't even know how you describe it life. And that's not realistic, as you said. So what is realistic?

[00:05:02] Kristi Gaultiere: Well, that's a great question. What is realistic is to be able to accept the stress and understand when it is too much, when you are needing to set some boundaries, needing to kind of tweak your rhythm of life with God so that it's not too stressed. When your stress isn't from unhealthy sources like expectations on yourself that are not in line with God's. expectations for you, if we would use that word. But God does have some things he encourages to do, wants us to do, but does our list of our own expectations match that or exceed that? It probably exceeds that quite a bit. And then will we be controlled by other people's expectations of us? Or just when we get caught up in unhealthy stress rhythms, because we like the energy it gives us? It motivates us. We don't want to be bored. You know, there's other reasons why sometimes we will create stress in our lives.

[00:06:04] Stephanie Gutierrez: That was such a good preview, I think, of all the places we're going today. So if your curiosity is not peaked, I don't even know if you're listening, because I want to talk about all these things right now because it is a part of our life. There's good stress. There's bad stress. As you said, there's things sometimes we seek it out because we want the adrenaline that comes with it.

Kristi, I know you and Bill serve a lot of missionaries through the retreats that you have at Soul Shepherding. So you've encountered not only people in ministry, but also missionaries. Uh, what have you two observed about missionaries and stress and how they handle it? What kind of things are they wanting to know?

[00:06:41] Kristi Gaultiere: Well, we love missionaries. First of all, we love your great heart, your passion, your zeal. We, we love the way that you are willing to venture on God and take him at his word and what you want to partner and see him do great things. And well, you're willing to endure discomforts to do that. But with that comes a lot of stress, and we definitely have a lot of empathy for the stress that missionaries endure and some of the hardships and some of the disappointment that comes when the expectations are not met.

And some of the unique stressors of, you know, travel is stressful. Well, missionaries travel quite a bit. Being in a different culture can be very stressful. Change is stressful in and of itself, even when it's good. So missionaries experience higher levels of stress. One of the things that we have, we have a lot of different inventories and assessments that we use, because, you know, Bill and I are doctors and psychologists. One of the things that we were trained in is you measure things, you research things, and we've just found inventories can be very helpful. 

So, most people are very familiar with stress indicators or assessments, and some of the things that are very high. On stress levels are things like move, things like change, things like losses, and missionaries experience a lot of these things. So, I think missionaries experience a great deal of stress, but they also have a lot of energy, a lot of motivation, a lot of resilience. They're usually pretty well connected, although it can be very lonely on the mission field. And there can even be the stresses of trying to build relationships, maintain relationships, or lead teams of relationships on the field, and then maintain those relationships back at home too. And not to mention the stress of fundraising and keeping in touch with people that are supporting you and the communications there.

There's so many unique stressors, I think, on missionaries. And then parenting in the midst of all of that and dealing with the cross culture issues with kids or the travel or having away from their grandparents or family that, you know, there's just some extra stressors. I think that everybody in general in life may be experiences that are amped up for missionaries, but we really love the way that missionaries just have such great attitudes, positive attitudes, and are very tenacious people.

[00:09:10] Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah, I appreciate that you recognize just the unique stresses and the amounts of stress that missionaries experience because it's, I think there are other occupations certainly like that too. I think of being in the military or being a first responder or the medical profession. I mean, there are other ones as well that certainly carry more stress than maybe the average person.

I also love that you acknowledged earlier again that our goal is not to eliminate that, because I think it can feel frustrating as a missionary sometimes when people try and get you to live life like I don't want to say a normal person because what is a normal person, but maybe like a less stressful job and it just feels like come on, can you acknowledge that that's not the life that I have?

So if that's not the goal, what? What would be the goal for a missionary in terms of the amount of stress that they allow themselves to experience and, and maybe the boundaries they put up?

[00:10:05] Kristi Gaultiere: Yes. Great question. So in Bill's book, my husband, Bill wrote a book, Your Best Life in Jesus’ Easy Yoke. And in that book, he's got a chart on optimal stress because the research shows that too little stress is not healthy, not good. We can stagnate. We can become lethargic. We can be depressed. We're not using our gifts.

We're not growing in faith. We're not out there working with the Lord. He, you know, he's called us to, to risk, right? That's part of faith is we're venturing on him. We're, we're trusting him. We're putting ourselves in positions where we are dependent upon him. And so we want that optimal stress, but we don't want the overstress of hurry.

We don't want the overstress of relying on adrenaline and being adrenalized for our energy. We don't want that overstress of things like or vacillating between procrastinating and then needing the stress of the last minute rush to get something done and relying on that for the energy, the stress to be able to move. So the goal really is to live in this moment. 

When I say the most optimal stress on this range, if you view the way that it looks in the book, it is almost like a gauge with a 180 degree arrow. You go all the way down to left. Your stress is too low. That's not healthy. That's not good. You're not going to grow. You're going to get stagnated. You're not going to be accomplishing all God has called you to do in your life. You might end up feeling some meaninglessness, some boredom. 

You don't want to over be out here where you're racing down the highway of life at 100 miles an hour. You're burning out all your engines and you're not able to sleep because you're too stressed and you've got too much to do, and you put too much on your plate and you're moving too fast and you're making mistakes or you waited last minute and you've got all kinds of the normal stress on top of the deadline stress and then not enough time to get it done stress. 

So, what we really want is we really want to hover here. In this optimal stress range, and one of the things that I would say that we find is very true is that when we are depending upon our own limited resources and gifts, our stress levels are going to be in the unhealthy range. So, part of what we really talk about, we really learned as great grace and gift to us is learning to depend upon Jesus, not ourself, not our flesh. When I'm depending upon myself and my flesh,  I'm too stressed out. When I'm more abandoned and surrendered to Jesus and I'm really in tune with him and abiding in him, my rhythm of life is able to be more in that optical stress zone.

[00:12:51] Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah, and talking a little bit more about that optimal stress, you know if we look around us, we can see that there are people who seem to be able to carry a lot more stress than others. And so when we're looking for that optimal stress, it's not like a scientific measurement, because what's stress to somebody might not be to somebody else. 

[00:13:12] Kristi Gaultiere: That's absolutely true.

[00:13:13] Stephanie Gutierrez: How can somebody know when they're in optimal stress? What might be some signs for them that they're not experiencing enough stress and they're getting lethargic? Or, what might be some signs that they're experiencing too much and should maybe pull back a little?

[00:13:26] Kristi Gaultiere: Great question, and yes, I do want to just affirm we have different stress tolerance levels. God has made us that way, and that's, that's a gift. Like, He's given us differing gifts in the body of Christ. He's given us different personalities, He's given us different areas that maybe are a temptation or a concern for us.

There are some people that actually stress really is never going to be a problem for them. It just isn't. And there's other people that stress is always going to be an area of challenge and temptation for them and something they really need to monitor and have some, some help with. So knowing that, and even the genetic components that are involved there are real.

And so I just want to say that that is definitely something that there's, I don't want anybody to feel shame if they have a low stress tolerance, or if there's somebody that has a high stress tolerance and we don't want to judge each other on that as well, but to be able to accept that. So, I do think that that's really important and I lost track of your questions.

Stephanie, you asked me a question because I got talking about stress tolerance.

[00:14:33] Stephanie Gutierrez: No! That was great! How can you know when you are maybe in that low stress where you're starting to get lethargic and where you actually should be stepping into more that's challenging you? And how can you know when you have stepped over into that, too much, I need to rein it backspace.

[00:14:49] Kristi Gaultiere: Yes, great. Well, if you are not depending upon Jesus for anything, if you're able to just really kind of handle everything, then probably you're a little bit on that lower range of the optimal stress. I think you want to have some things you really are depending upon God. You really are reaching out. You're growing. Based on the knowledge of your relationship with God and his call and his action in his life, he is leading you to venture on him beyond your comfort zone. If you have no stress and you are just always feeling very, very at peace and nothing at all, no risk in your life, no need for greater dependence upon God.

Everything feels in control. You, you probably need some growth. in that area to rely on God more and need to need a challenge. You maybe have said no to too many things. You maybe are too boundaried or you're maybe, um, overreacting to fear by shutting down some things that maybe God might have you open up to.

[00:15:56] Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. And how about, uh, on the other side where people are stepping into too much stress and maybe they aren't aware of it. They're just plowing ahead and they think I'm not stressed and everybody around them is looking at them going, Yes, you are. Do you not hear or see yourself? What are some of those signs that maybe they would notice themselves or maybe people around them would notice?

[00:16:16] Kristi Gaultiere: Well, one of the signs would be agitation. If you're finding yourself really irritable, reactive on edge, if you're not able to sleep, if you're having symptoms of stress in your body, in terms of, you know, it's taking a toll on your body, either in little ways, like maybe upset stomach or body heats, just, you know, too high from moving all the time. You can't be still and present to yourself to God others. It's hard to pray because you're the stress in your body. It's just you're moving. You're moving too fast. You can't stop to just tune into the Lord. You are trying to do too much. 

Maybe you get clumsy. You're dropping things. You're forgetting things. You're late everywhere you're going. These would be some symptoms where probably there's too much stress going on. Your life relationships are being neglected and people are missing you or worse. They're offended and hurt by your lack of presence and attunement to them. You're not meeting deadlines, you're letting people down, you're creating stress for other people because of that, because you're not, you're not keeping up with the maintenance of tasks and things that are creating then stress, last minute stress for other people, because you're getting in late or just at the deadline. Those would be some examples. Certainly stress, too much stress, especially chronically becomes anxiety. 

You know, we often will say, I'm so stressed out. But the reality is a lot of us are stressed in because we're repressing our emotions. Repressing our emotions can increase anxiety. And so that's one of the things too, you might be having symptoms of anxiety that are symptoms of being overly stressed. You're internalizing a lot of stress. Maybe other people aren't even aware of it or noticing it, but you're not able to sleep, or you're ruminating in worry, or you're finding yourself having nightmares or, or, having traumas that you're reliving and kind of swirling and revisiting, you're not getting healing and help to move out of those.

Those would be all symptoms of being too high on the optimal stress diagram and some of the ways that that would look for you in your life.

[00:18:39] Stephanie Gutierrez: That's so good about being stressed in, because I think stressed out we can pick up on a little bit more easily. It's more evident to those around us. It's more obvious than the things that we're doing that are stressed in. Along those lines, when I'm stressed out, I can know to cut things out, set up some boundaries. It's a little bit less clear when I'm stressed in with the ruminating thoughts or the repressed emotions. That sounds a little bit trickier to get out of and less clear. Can you explain to us a little bit more, if somebody's resonating with that and thinking, I think I might be stressed in, how can they begin to take steps to relieve themselves of that kind of stress?

[00:19:20] Kristi Gaultiere: Great question. Well, you need to look at ways that you are trying to repress your emotions, you're internalizing things, and you're not having time to process, to pray, to journal, to to talk with someone who can listen to you with patience, with empathy, who can listen to you while they're praying for you. Who can really attune to you and what your experience is so you don't feel so alone and so that you can find the words. And they can maybe even help you find the words to name what it is that you're experiencing and what you're feeling and help you get in touch with some of that emotion that you're not even aware of because they are so deeply repressed, or you have such habits of internalizing and repressing your emotion. 

These are some ways that you can get in touch with that that pattern and give yourself the grace and the space and let yourself really be present to the Lord. And receive his grace in the form of his presence to you, that he really does want you to cast these cares on him. He wants you to tell him what it is that's troubling you.

He wants, that's, that's a part of an intimate relationship, is when we're honest, we're transparent, and it's a part even of repentance. You know, the word for repentance in scripture, if we look at the original language, it means, think about your thinking. And when we're just repressing our emotions and trying to plow through and get the next thing done and always be in a hurry and very task focused and, and moving so fast that we don't even have time to pay attention and attune to what we're thinking or feeling because our thoughts have feelings attached to them as well. And so that's one of the things that's really important if you're stressed in is to take some intentional time and to move at a pace where you have time to be checking in with what is, what, what are your thoughts? What are your feelings? What is going on in your body? And to, to really be able to bring that up into the light of God's love and presence, to be present to God, yourself and others.

[00:21:37] Stephanie Gutierrez: And so for both of those, you need other people. I mean, for that being stressed out, you got to get some stuff off your plate, and that requires asking help, which almost sometimes can be easier. It's easier to, I think, sometimes ask somebody, uh, will you help me with this task than to say, will you help me by listening to me?

With that, you know, stressed in piece, like I have some things I need to process and share that can feel embarrassing. That can feel like, I don't even know where to begin or where to start. I mean, I know one place, if somebody can't find somebody around them, I know at Soul Shepherding, uh, there are spiritual directors and I know I have a spiritual director through Soul Shepherding and she's a wonderful person to process through those, some of those feelings.

What's going on in my relationship with the Lord? What, where are the areas in where I'm hearing from him? Where is there some challenge? So that's a place that people can start. And then in terms of maybe people on their team or a safe person back home, but being stressed out or stressed in, you need people.

But that being stressed in, uh, I love that you brought that up, that we, we do need people and it takes that embarrassing, awkward step often in the beginning of saying, like, I need some help. You've talked about that a little bit in your own story, that you were raised with some shame around emotions and that was difficult for you. What was, what was that like for you?

[00:23:08] Kristi Gaultiere: Definitely, I didn't have safe places or safe people to be able to share my internal stress, my emotions with. And you know, as ministers and in the church and as missionaries, so often we don't have safe places where we are sure that we won't be judged. Or often our pride gets in the way, you know, I should know better.

I shouldn't need this. I should be doing better. I have Jesus, you know, I don't, I don't need somebody else. These are some of the things that can get in the way of our getting the healthy soul care that we need or are participating with that. And unfortunately, that keeps us from being more effective. in the work that's called us to do. So this is, this is one of the reasons why I studied psychology. Why I got my doctorate is because I was looking at all the truth that I knew from Scripture, from, um, I, I got excellent Christian education growing up in my church and Christian college, but nobody was talking about these pieces. Nobody was talking about the emotional parts. And I really needed to understand that. 

And I was seeing people that I loved, who I, I respected, who knew God's truth, who revered God's truth, but they were having heart attacks. They were having nervous breakdowns. They were having emotional symptoms that became physical, that became relational and were affecting their effectiveness in ministry. I wanted to understand that. 

And that's why I studied psychology. And then as I began to get the tools and to work with people in therapy, and I saw the difference that it was making, This needs to be accessible to everybody and so much of what we really need doesn't require a doctorate in psychology. It doesn't require that somebody have their license as a therapist. It requires a safe space and it requires somebody who is willing to be present and even better when they're present to the spirit of Jesus. and listening to the Lord and participating with his spirit in prayer while they're listening, while they're holding the space for somebody to come. And as you might even just say, kind of undress emotionally, just get real, just get honest, just get raw with themselves and with God and with the other person to be able to say, I don't need any pretense here. I don't need to pretend. I don't need to be pushing or presuming. I can just be I'm going to be honest and authentic and I don't have to be afraid and I could trust that God is with me.

He's for me and even as I experienced that so much myself in spiritual direction, just having that place where I, I didn't have to withhold anything. I could say it all and I would know that person would mediate God's grace to me and how free he was, how energized I felt after I got all that gunk. It was kind of like, one of the analogies I use is kind of like I was swimming around in dirty water in my fishbowl and it was clogging me down and I couldn't breathe. And as I would go and meet with my spiritual director and I'd be able to kind of begin to name these things that were floating around in my water and kind of say, well, yeah, I'm kind of afraid of this, or, you know, I'm angry about that, or I feel shame here.

I feel like I'm failing. I'm not doing enough here. And just to begin to kind of name and talk about my experience. I feel pressure here, or I feel, I feel so confused. I, you know, I've got my doctorate in psychology. I should know what to do for my child right now, but I don't know. And and I don't know, I can't hear God on this. And I feel shame about that. And what am I doing wrong? And just to be able to say these kinds of things in a space of somebody else who is listening to the Lord on my behalf, who is showing me his love and mirroring his love for me, who is able to at times speak some of the things that the Holy Spirit wants to say to me through that person and I can, I can actually hear it and kind of, whoa, or I can hear myself and say, Oh my word, I didn't even know I thought that.

Or, oh wow, why am I, why am I, why am I so stressed about that? God's got this. I didn't realize I was so stressed about it. So I started to talk about it and have a safe space to get in touch with all the different levels of what was going on unconsciously below the surface. 

So you know, this is now our mission at Soul Shepherding. We train spiritual directors. We provide spiritual directors for people so that it's accessible to anybody and everybody to be able to receive this kind of care and then our Soul Shepherding retreats to be able to come away in a community that's safe and be able to learn tools and be able to have times of solitude and silence each day where you can have that time alone with God. We give you different exercises to get in touch with and to begin to help you find out what's under the surface here.

What have I been repressing? What are my stress levels? Taking some of these assessments and then being able to share them in community in our Soul Shepherding groups in a safe space and hearing somebody else and kind of saying, Oh, I needed that. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that are, Oh. You're feeling that too. I thought I was the only one. And we need these spaces where we really can show up and be real and bear our souls and let God pour his life, his grace, his love, his truth in there. 

[00:28:49] Stephanie Gutierrez: I'm going to be at a Soul Shepherding retreat in two weeks, and I'm so excited to just get to be a part of it. And for people who are listening who maybe have never heard of spiritual direction, or they just think, well, what on earth is that? I mean, we just like to say it's like a spiritual friend.

It's not somebody who is, uh, coming between you and Jesus because you can't talk to Jesus yourself. It's just a spiritual friend who's coming alongside you, taking your hand and saying, let's listen to God together. You listen to what he's saying to you and I'm going to listen to, and let's just see if he says something.

It's, they can, like you said, hold space for you and let you say things that maybe you couldn't say in another space in this really graceful and beautiful way. So I love that God used that for you so much to help you get free in your emotions. I know Bill has shared his struggle on his side was the adrenaline piece, which you mentioned earlier, that adrenaline addiction and just wanting to do more and more and more and more and more. And can you talk for a second about that? Cause at the last retreat I was at, you guys brought that up for the first time. Adrenaline addictions. How can people know if they might have that as a problem? Because you don't always recognize it in yourself.

[00:29:58] Kristi Gaultiere: Well, that's true. And it took a long time for Bill to recognize that, you know, he, he was trained in sports. He's an athlete. So early on in his formation, he found adrenaline was so useful to him to, you know, getting all adrenalized up for the games. It helped him perform better in the games. He found he could be quicker.

He could get faster. He could accomplish more. It felt good. And so he wanted that kick again. So then he would begin to drum it up himself. He liked to be in a hurry. He liked to have that feeling, made him feel alive. It increased his confidence. You know, there are benefits to adrenaline, but the problem is he was relying on it too much.

And as we got married, I began to see this. And I began to see that he, it took a long time for him to come down from it. And we would go on vacation. It would take a long time for him to be able to come down from that adrenaline and actually be able to be present and to be able to rest. And he'd just get down and then it was time to go back and he'd get adrenalized up again.

And I begin to see the, the cycle of that adrenaline dependence upon him of the getting it drummed up and him looking for ways to drum it up and excite himself and energize himself and the fact it had on him. And then that coming down and that withdraw and that emptiness and that boredom and how, how miserable that was for him.

And so, um, it was, it was really through my alerting him to and asking him to do some research and some reading on that that he came to realize. Oh, yes. I am self medicating through drumming up adrenaline. I like it. It feels good. I like to be adrenalized, but recognizing that it was unhealthy and that he was depending upon himself and adrenaline and not the Lord and not the Holy Spirit as his fuel, not God's grace as his fuel. So that was a great grace when he began to recognize, what would it be like for me to not depend upon the adrenaline, but to depend upon Jesus. And he found that actually it was more fruitful. For his life and his ministry and certainly for our relationship to do that, but it's something that he has this natural inclination towards and so he has to watch it because he easily can tip back over into that out of the optimal stress into too much stress and it feels good for a while.

[00:32:21] Stephanie Gutierrez: Oh, it does. It feels great. I mean, that's not my normal tendency, but I will say there are periods where I feel it and it feels wonderful. You know, I'm, for those of you who are into the Enneagram, I'm a nine. And so when I'm in kind of my security spot, I go to three and three is one of those higher energy numbers.

And I love it if I'm at a conference. Or at an event or something where it naturally pulls on that adrenaline. It does. It wakes your brain up and it feels really good. Or I think of when we were on the field, you know, when, when we had events at the church or when a team would come in, there's times where you feel it.

And it feels wonderful because you're able to do things you couldn't normally do when you don't have it. But when you're in it too much or too high…I mean, you referenced the crash, Kristi, it's so intense. I mean, you know, my husband, Danny and I have talked to so many pastors and one of the things we talk about is the adrenaline of Sundays and then the crash on Mondays.

And I've heard it called the holy hangover. And I mean, Mondays are notorious for whether it's a pastor or it's, you know, you think the kind of people who are in the music industry who do concerts and stuff too. Things happen on Mondays. Things happen after concerts and after events, and that's when people are finding themselves tripping up and and getting into trouble and and all of a sudden looking at porn or drinking too much or feeling tempted to do these things all these crazy things that like somebody in ministry would never think they would do. It often happen after the adrenaline crashes. 

So, I guess maybe that would be a question I would ask you, because we know that as missionaries, there are certainly moments of adrenaline. So when we have adrenaline, how can we prepare ourselves for the crash so that we don't get tripped up on those Mondays or whatever day it is for you?

[00:34:19] Kristi Gaultiere: Yeah, so important. Well, if you have a normal rhythm where you know when you're going to be adrenalized and when that come-down is going to be, then that could be a really good time to schedule in something like a spiritual direction session where you would have that on that day of the week. Every time that you have some tools or you plan ahead to have some tools to be able to cope with that come down, some ways that you can actually participate with God's care for you in that, rather than ignoring it or trying to self-medicate or distract from it. Once again, we're talking about where we really get off is when we're depending upon ourself. Whether we're depending upon ourself for own power source with adrenaline or our own giftedness, or whether we're depending upon ourself to be able to self-medicate, to distract, to shut down, to escape, to deny our emotions or realities or in, in everything. In the good, in the hard, in the fruitful, in the unfruitful, are we depending upon Jesus? Are we really trying to control things ourselves, or are we abandoning ourselves and outcomes to Him? And when we're living a life of optimal stress, we're living a life where we really are abandoned to God, and we're able to abandon our outcomes to God.

Now that doesn't mean we don't carry any responsibility. We do! God, God gives us responsibilities to steward. God gives us responsibilities to steward. but we're to do that in reliance upon him.

We want to, we want to do our best, but we don't want to trust our best. It's minor differences like that, that can tip us into unhealth and can, can really get us into trouble. And so it's really this, this spiritual health of intimacy with Jesus, fellowship with him, abiding in him, trusting him, relying on him, and his grace power as being enough for us. He's, his grace is what fuels us. We're depending upon that. We're not depending upon adrenaline. We're not depending upon our own knowledge, our own experience, our own gifts.

[00:36:43] Stephanie Gutierrez: That's so good. And it's so subtle because it's just one of those things that we don't think of. It's not obvious. It's not something we can touch, but you're right. In those moments of high adrenaline, where is my true energy coming from? Am I relying on my adrenaline to get me through this moment? Or am I relying on Jesus to get me through this moment?

Because I'm stepping into pride and then on my crash days after what that is, you know, am I relying on my nap to save me? Am I relying on whatever I do to recover to help me feel better or am I reminding myself No, Jesus was my source yesterday. Jesus is my source today. And of course there are things that we can do in the natural.

Like, I think just even saying it out loud, like, you know, recognizing I am in high adrenaline right now, you know, or I am having a crash day right now. This is a holy, holy hangover. There's something about saying it out loud. I think that for me always helped because otherwise I'm like, what's wrong with me? Why do I feel like this? Feel this way? I'm like, cause you preached three times yesterday. You don't have much left in you. And so if you can just make it a little bit more logical and recognize it and then know what you need. Like I know for me, always time with the Lord is a given. 

I love your idea about doing a spiritual direction session on that day. Cause that's like, so in your face in a wonderful way. But then like for me as an introvert, I know that I always needed time with the Lord. To recharge quietly, if that was possible, was to get away and be quiet. And then Danny, as an extrovert, he needed to go see a friend. In the beginning, I used to try and make him be like me. I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, I know that I recharge by like being alone. So you need to be alone. Let me create a space for you. And I try and make it possible for him to be alone. And he would come down. After an hour alone, crankier than when he went up and all of a sudden I, I remembered he was an extrovert and I went, Oh my gosh, you need to go get like coffee with a friend. And so I just was like, go hang with a friend. He was like, this is so much better. Oh my gosh. Thank you. That was a lot more helpful. 

It's tapping as these holistic beings, spirit, soul, and body. What can I do in my spirit to remind myself I'm dependent on the Lord? How can I create space for Jesus? Whether it's doing something social, like in a small group, in a coffee with a friend or being alone with the Lord or, um, and then what can I do for my body? What can I do for my mind? And so you've referenced this a couple of times with that dependence on the Lord. And you've mentioned the, the easy yoke leadership that, you know, you and Bill talk about so much.

How does, uh, that easy yoke leadership really changed the way we approach the hard things in ministry and life? 

[00:39:17] Kristi Gaultiere: Well, one of the things that we also teach with this is that if we're just trying harder all of the time, we're going to constantly be failing.  Trying harder is just going to get you more of the same. And so what we need to do and what we're really what you're talking about and what we're talking about in this podcast is it's learning some ways to train in this easy yoke life of, of walking with Jesus and working with Jesus.

I love the message wording that Eugene Peterson has translated from Matthew 11, 28 to 30, where Jesus says, are you tired? Are you worn out? Are you burned out? Come to me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me. Work with me. Watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace of my easy yoke. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you'll learn to live freely and lightly. That's what we're talking about. This is the invitation for all of our life with God. It's not this reliance on ourselves. I got to plow this field and that field and that field and get this huge harvest all in and it's all up to me and I've got to do it. Uh, maybe unconsciously, I'm not even aware of this, but unconsciously, I might be, I got to do this to prove my worth, to earn favor with God, to earn a reward, to impress people. You know, what is motivating what we're doing anyway? That's not the invitation Jesus is giving us. There is work to be done. There are fields to be plowed.

He wants them plowed, but he calls and invites us to do it with him. Come to me. Walk with me, work with me. And Jesus was teaching in an agricultural community where people saw the two oxen yoked together, plowing fields. Everybody knew when he used that language, what he was talking about. And they knew that the way that you trained an ox to plow a field was to take a young and experienced, very strong, energetic ox, like some of us are, and yoke to a trained ox who knew how to pace himself, who knew how to stop and eat and care for his body while he was plowing a field, who knows how to plow a field and not risk to get out of the yoke and harm himself, um, who knows how to not try to go too fast and then burn out and not be able to finish the field because he's exhausted, uh, who knows how to get to the top. the water and the food to make it sustainable, to keep going, have sustainable, healthy rhythms, to keep going. 

These are the things Jesus is talking about. And we see him living this easy yoke life himself with his father. This rhythm of life where he spends time to with, with, to he's engaged in very fruitful plow working. He is healing people. He is teaching people. He is. He's on mission for God. He's, but he's also living this rhythm of life where he withdraws from the crowds. He withdraws from the crowds to sleep. He withdraws from the crowds to pray. He withdraws from the crowds to be alone on retreat with his father before he makes big decisions like choosing the 12 disciples, um, in preparation for what God has for him on mission. 

And we need these rhythms with God. And in Jesus himself, even 11 passage earlier on, he talks about, I only do what the father tells me to do. Again, in the message translation, this is a father-son operation coming out of father and son intimacies and knowledge. This is where he's saying my whole life is yoked to my father. It's intimate union, and this is the invitation for you. I'm not keeping it to myself, he says. I'm willing to go over it line by line with anyone willing to listen. This is an invitation to that easy yoke rhythm and it's something we do have to train in. We're not going to get this at church. We're not going to get this in our world. It's an intentional training in intimacy. with Jesus, learning to be with him and learning to move at his pace, that pace of grace, empowered by him and his power and favor, not reliance upon ourself or not being driven by external factors or internal or extraordinary motivations.

[00:44:11] Stephanie Gutierrez: I love looking at the life of Jesus because he did do it so well. And those verses you read in Matthew, I mean, I think those are probably some of the most beautiful verses that Eugene Peterson translated in The Message. They're, they're so life giving and they remind us that we're not helpless, that we're not hopeless, that Jesus has promised to walk with us and he, he'll show us the way there is something we can do.

We've talked about so many things today with you, Kristi. I mean, there's, you know, whether it is, uh, finding a spiritual friend there with you, whether it's doing spiritual direction, whether it's just renewing your relationship with the Lord and bringing it before him and saying, Hey, show me what are some changes I can make? Or talking to somebody who knows you well, like, what do I need to cut out of my life? Or what is something I should step into? Um, there's so much they can do. 

And I know at Soul Shepherding, you have such amazing resources. We also have a counselor who offers CERNEY stress assessments for free and counseling sessions to missionaries. So I'll put up all that information as well in our resources, and you guys have so many great articles that you've written on stress.

I know Bill is so wonderful to send over articles each month we put on Modern Day, something that the two of you have written, which is so great and life-giving. So we just feel blessed to be in partnership with, with the two of you and with Soul Shepherding and all that you guys do to invest in, people in ministry. It's a big deal. Like we, as missionaries, we want to, we want to keep going and doing the work that God's created us to do. And that's, I know your heart's mission and goal is to keep people doing what God's called them to be by empowering them, uh, with all the resources that you have and just the love and the empathy.

You are the queen of empathy, Kristi. And that's just such a great starting point. Even just have somebody go like, it's, Hey, I get it. Like. It's, that's normal that you feel that way and it's okay and you're not crazy and, and uh, yeah, cause we feel that way sometimes. So thank you again for coming on today for all that you shared.

And I just believe that this was a huge encouragement to everybody who was listening. Kristi, can I ask you to close us out by praying over all of our missionary listeners?

[00:46:25] Kristi Gaultiere: That would be a joy.

Oh yes, Jesus, thank you. Thank you for each one of your beautiful sons and daughters tuning in right now. Thank you that you drew them to listen, that you're speaking to their hearts, their mind, their soul, their spirit, inviting them into deep reunion with you, to make space, to listen to you, to be able to get emotionally honest with themselves, with you, And Lord, would you provide for each of them a safe person, an ambassador of you, a shepherd after your own heart, who they also could be emotionally honest with, someone who they can really relax with. who can minister your grace, your peace to them, your wisdom to them. 

I ask, Lord, that you would guide them, that the boundaries would fall in pleasant places for them, that you would help them to be able to identify what is it, Lord, that they are doing that you haven't asked them to do, that you would have them to release in order to be more present and effective with you and working and walking with you. Would you guide them into areas where they need more care personally, provide that, in areas where they need more resources externally, and where they need more spiritual resources? Would you pour those out upon them Lord, and in all, even as they wait, would you help them to see your face shining upon them, your delight in them, your smile upon them? And you would help them to see that you are for them and you are with them and that you love them for who they are even more than what they're doing?

Thank you, Lord for their willingness to venture on you to make sacrifices in love for you and your people, your church, and those who are so desperate for you. And I ask, Lord, that you would continue to speak to them of your heart for them personally, as well as for those that they're ministering to, and that you would guide them in loving you with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength, and loving their neighbor as themselves, not instead of themselves, that you would provide for them to be able to open their hearts to deeper levels. of your goodwill, your love for them. In Jesus’ name, I pray with faith and thanks. Amen.

[00:49:18] Stephanie Gutierrez: Amen.

Thanks for joining us today. You can find all of our episodes on https://mdmpodcast.org/. Since 2008, Modern Day Missions has been providing financial administrative and marketing services to Christian missionaries around the globe. We're currently partnered with a thousand missionaries in more than 90 different nations. If you or someone you know, is looking for a nonprofit covering for your missionary calling Modern Day could be the answer you're looking for. Find out more at https://www.modernday.org/. We look forward to seeing you on our next episode. 

People on this episode

Head Shot

Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez

Host
Head Shot

Luke Eubank

Producer