S07E01 Doing the Impossible in Missions with Rod Plummer

Join us for an unforgettable conversation with Rod Plummer, a missionary and church planter in Japan for over 20 years. Rod shares the incredible story of how he and his wife, Viv, and their family and team became part of a wave of God’s movement in one of the world’s most challenging mission fields.

You’ll be amazed at some of the approaches the Plummers took and how surprisingly effective they were, challenging conventional missions wisdom. They now have 17+ campuses throughout Japan and Asia and a thriving team of missionaries and nationals reaching people for Christ.

From practical strategies to divine inspiration, this episode will inspire you to think differently, give you new ideas, and challenge you to step boldly into the impossible. Tune in for a conversation that could redefine your perspective on missions strategies!

Thanks for listening! Email us your questions at care@modernday.org

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Chapters

• 0:10 Meet Rod Plummer
• 2:55 The Tsunami Vision & The Big Move
• 4:01 Japan's Missions Challenges & Opportunities
• 7:57 What Do Missionaries Do About Their Kids' Education?
• 10:09 Building a Solid Missionary Team
• 16:58 Finding Support and Community
• 19:01 Cultural Adaptation and Learning
• 22:28 Reaching Young People on Campuses
• 22:53 Fresh Strategies in Japan
• 25:01 Building Connections Through English
• 30:46 First Converts and Their Stories
• 33:09 Inclusion and Fun in Ministry
• 38:59 Adapting to Cultural Shifts
• 44:10 Global Missionary Support
• 47:35 Concluding Thoughts and Prayer

Transcript

Stephanie Gutierrez: Welcome to Modern Day Missionaries, a podcast by Modern Day Missions created for missionaries, by missionaries. I'm your host, Stephanie Gutierrez. In today's episode, I sat down in person with Rod Plummer, a groundbreaking missionary in Japan who's been doing the impossible for over 20 years. We talk about stepping into bold faith, hearing God's voice, trying brand new things, and trusting him to move in ways that defy expectations. This conversation will inspire you to dream big, trust God, and lean into his calling, no matter how impossible it seems.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Rod, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. We are so happy to have you.

Rod Plummer: Great to be with you. How exciting. And all your missionary listeners as well.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Wonderful. And you know, I was just telling you beforehand, this is the first episode that we've recorded in person. So this is kind of special.

Rod Plummer: Great. Glad that it's with you. I hope it's good.

Stephanie Gutierrez: It's going to be great. It's going to be great. We were remembering too back to when we first met when you were down in Peru. And it was so fun when you came down and shared with me, the missionary interns we had down there and at the church, and now we get to be together here in Birmingham. Church of the Highlands was so gracious to let us use their studio.

Rod Plummer: Yeah. And Daniel translated for me in Peru and it was great. I had a great time there. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Today's going to be a fun conversation. We're talking about doing the impossible, about trusting in God, hearing his voice, being able to discern what he's saying to us, thinking outside the box, doing things differently sometimes, which you guys certainly have done.

Rod Plummer: It's been a long journey, but a good journey.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Well, and you and Viv, uh, moved to Japan to be missionaries. Now, how many years ago?

Rod Plummer: It was in 2002. So 23 years ago or 22 years ago.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah.

Rod Plummer: So our two little boys, they were nine and four at the time. So we moved them all the way from, uh, near Brisbane in Australia across to Japan. It was a big deal, but it was, it was good. It was great.

Stephanie Gutierrez: And you had done some missions work before that a little bit as well, right?

Rod Plummer: Yeah. I spent a lot of my adult life in Asia. Uh, church planting in the Philippines and, uh, Indonesia, and then got married, and then Viv and I went to Thailand for four years. So a lot of our adult life has been in Asia. We love Asia. It's just great. Great place.

Stephanie Gutierrez: And you guys have such a unique story. I remember when Pastor Robert had brought you in to share with the interns. He loved tapping into that part of the impossible of your story, because I know at Modern Day we have some missionaries that serve in Japan, and then we have missionaries all over who listen to the podcast. And Japan is sometimes called the graveyard for missionaries, right? What were some of the things that you had heard about Japan before you and Viv and the team moved?

Rod Plummer: Yeah, I think we heard all that stuff, um, and um, from both nationals and foreigners living in Japan that it's cold. Whatever you want to call it. 

But the thing about us is we were pastoring in Australia and my lovely wife Viv had a vision during a prayer meeting. So we're pastoring in Australia, church is doing good and she has this open-eyed vision. All of a sudden a wave came up and she described it as a tsunami. This huge tsunami came up out and she knew it was God. It was a godly vision and she felt the Holy Spirit. And, uh, she called out, what is it? And, God spoke through the wave to her saying, don't be afraid. It's me. It's coming soon. And the wave splashed her and she just filled the Holy Spirit and like wrote it like a surfer in her vision, open-eyed vision, uh, full color, like a crazy vision. And she was so impacted by that. Just, uh, she talked about the tsunami vision and what did it mean? And we were just pastoring in Australia. We were happy. 

But a few other things came together and we thought, well, maybe, maybe tsunami is the key, tsunami being a Japanese word. Uh, and so we thought, well, let's go and have a look. Let's enjoy a holiday in Japan and just see. So we, we loved it, came back, felt called. So that's really important. 

How we landed in Japan was, although we heard all that, that stuff that it was so hard and it was, uh, there's no denying how hard it was. But we went there with the concept that God was calling us, uh, to be part of a wave. Now, God wasn't going to do a wave because we're going, God was going to do a wave, but he was sort of saying, do you want to be part of the wave of a new generation of, of my moving in Japan? So although there was that stuff, we really held that wave vision very dear to our hearts. It helped us through so many things in the early months and, uh, still does to this day actually. So it was such a very, very powerful thing. And I think. God was good giving it to Viv, my wife rather than me, because I would have said, yeah, let's go, but she needed to feel that God was calling her. And so that's a big part of why we stayed, big part of why we ended up being more fruitful there.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. That's so key, I think, that you brought that up, because sometimes you'll see that in in couples where one will feel that strong call and the other one might not and it is so essential to be on the same page so that you don't have one over there feeling resented. Like, where did you drag me to?

Rod Plummer: Yeah, it's true. And, uh, even before we were married, as I said, I just loved Asia. I was, I was an Asiaophile. Is that a word? Asiaophile. And I could live anywhere, enjoy the food, enjoy the people. It had to be Viv that was really touched by God. And, um, she still feels it to this day, feels that God has called her along with me to be in Japan.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Oh, that's so good. We had a similar thing in our story, I remember, where Danny heard first, actually, and he said, Lord, I'm not telling Stephanie. If I tell her we're going to Peru, she'll say no, and I can't go without her, and you've called me to her, so you put me in a possible situation, and I, and I got a separate word from the Lord on it. And, It did, it made all the difference because I think I would have been resented otherwise. So how beautiful that God knew you were ready, you were going to go. This was not hard for you, but for Viv that she got that word from the Lord. And to move the two boys across and find a school and all that stuff. So yeah, it was, it was really important for her.

Rod Plummer: Oh, that's so good.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. So what were some of your guys’ expectations then going into Japan?

Rod Plummer: Well, we, we grabbed a small team of 10 young Australians, a gap year, um, between uni, uh, and, and work or high school and uni, and, um, all 10 were from my friend's churches in Australia. So there was some level of, um, you know, that, that new style of church, the new sort of thing, what we were going to do. Um, that, that really built expectation together that we were really a team committed to seeing Japanese saved. So we had the expectation that we're just going to go in and make friends and um, and see people saved. And we knew it was going to be hard, but we just knew that that was going to happen and, and God was going to be with us in the whole process.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. So you've got that side of preparing for Japan that's. includes that, you know, that research, the investigation, the natural part of your mind. And then there's the part that just is spirit led, that vision and all of that. How do you balance those two things out when you guys are getting ready to go?

Rod Plummer: I guess we'd already been pastoring a long time and had worked out some of those things in a local church setting. We felt confident that God was with us. And, but in a strange way, we thought I was 42 and Viv was 38 or something when we went, like, We weren't young, um, to, to go and start again with nothing, um, was a big deal, but we just felt God's calling us. And even if it doesn't work out, I know that sounds negative, but even if it doesn't work out, we're going to be okay. And the team's going to be okay. Like it's not going to be an absolute disaster. 

Now we weren't thinking we'll go and try it and leave. That wasn't, that wasn't, um, not what I'm saying, but it just, the, I had a confidence that it's okay, it's going to be okay. The only thing we really wanted to make sure of was that was our kids, that they were in a good school, that they weren't put under too much pressure, especially my nine year old who was in school. Um, and so we had to find a school. That was the side we really did look at before we went, check that out and, um, went and talked to the principal of the school. Australians coming into a more American school base and, um, you know, all those practical things. I'm sure a lot of the people here listening would, would have gone through exactly the same thing. That was the, that was the absolute, we had to feel sure that our kids were going to be okay in that move. 

And of course it was hard for them. And, um, Monty, who was nine later on said he didn't want to go. He was really upset and he had to leave his dog, had to leave his, his, his, grandma and had to leave that lifestyle in Australia. Um, that's another story, but he came to peace with that. And actually he's now a pastor with us in Japan many, many years later, but that was an issue we had to really face. So good expectation, great team, but looking into the education was a big deal.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. And I'm sure a lot of missionaries can resonate with that. There's homeschooling or looking for a school, you feel like, Lord, I gotta know what's going on here.

Rod Plummer: Yeah. And Viv knew she wasn't, wasn't ready to do homeschooling. So it had to be an actual school. And we found a Christian school, gave us a really good price. Um, it was amazing actually. It was really great.

Stephanie Gutierrez: I love what you said a second ago. Um, it really had a lot of humility in it and that you said, if it doesn't work out. And when I hear that, I don't hear a lack of faith. It reminds me of the Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego story where they said, Hey, God's going to save us. And if he doesn't, which can sound almost like a contradiction, but I think it's a statement of humility because we do our best to hear from the Lord. And yet we know that we are human. And that wasn't plan B. That wasn't like, we're going to go and try and go home. It wasn't plan B. It was just, we're okay. Right. You know, it's sort of the difference between those two. It's not like we're planning to, if it doesn't work, we'll do all these things. It was like, even if the worst happens, like you're saying, it will be okay. It will be okay.

Rod Plummer: Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Gutierrez: I'd love to even just dig into that a little bit more. So missionaries are kind of a crazy breed. We do wild and bold and faith-filled things. You have to have some of that in you to be able to go. How can a missionary or even a person just know when they are stepping out in bold faith versus maybe being arrogant and I don't even want to say naive, like, like an arrogant, like, I'm not going to listen to anything anyone's saying because God gave me this vision. Cause sometimes that's what happens and sometimes it's not good. How do you differentiate between those?

Rod Plummer: Well, again, I was a bit older. We had been pastors, we'd been missionaries. Um, and that doesn't mean we're super mature in the whole thing, but we had been. We've traveled some, some way, but our whole life has been built upon the concept of what we call journaling, which is getting a word from God every day. It could be a little word, it could be a big word, but storing up the big words and had a real confidence that God was leading us, that we were going to go into, no matter what Japan is like, God is with us. He's not going to leave us. 

I've lived in some countries where it was really hard and I'm full of all sorts of religious stuff, but I've always felt God. And so as long as I'm getting a word from God, Viv's getting a word from God, we bring our words together, we're going to be fine. And in our life, in Viv and my life, we don't spend a lot of time praying together, but we do spend a lot of time praying apart and bringing our words together. It's, it's a different, everyone's different, right? But that's how we do it. 

And so we're always bringing a positive word, what God said. And so in the hard times, It got down sometimes to what did God say? And it was the wave. God said the wave. That became a, in fact, I was probably more up and down at times than her. She was absolutely like a stalwart. She was just, God spoke and I saw the vision and, and, uh, she had to say to me sometimes what did God say? And I said, yeah, the wave, you know, like, uh, and that wasn't that we were, we were wavering. It wasn't that, but some days aren't good, right? Some days. 

And there's a lot of things in the natural that went wrong. A lot of things when we arrived with the team went really wrong. Um, so those early days were very, very testing, very, very difficult. And our 10 young Australians that came, if we had been shaken too much, they may have gone home. They were only there on a gap year. They had lots of other options.

And so the concept of, of being together with a word from God, and we're going to get some fruit because we had no fruit. We had no one. No Japanese. We had no young Japanese on our team. No one was getting saved. It seemed like some of the things we heard may be true, but we didn't accept that. Like, like, that's a, that tension. Is that okay? Like Could be true and it's not true. Could be true, not true. 

And so that word, uh, journaling, we've got all our team journaling, bringing words together, trying to encourage each other. So I would say to people who are going out there, you've got to get a word. And we've now got 15 campuses through Japan and Asia. And so when we plant with a couple or a single, we do plant with singles. Um, I always say the last, the last part of this journey is you must bring me your word because you must have the faith of that city, not me. I will bring you covering and strength and help and pastoring, Viv and I, but you must bring faith. You must bring your heart. You must say to me, I have this word from God, and I love that city and I'm going to do something in that city so that I can actually call on that too on the day that I get the phone call saying it's really, really hard. And I say, I really, really know, but what did God say? And we were able to review the scripture, um, not holding it over them, but like speaking together. In agreement, this is what God said about your city and you. 

So journaling is a huge part of what we do. Just a simple verse every day, write down a couple of words. It's not diary. We don't do diaries. Well, some might, but most don't. But just as a simple phrase and that phrase becomes, you know, the word for the week sort of thing. Um, and people say to me, what else is there? And I sort of say, not much else. That is, that is the baseline for our success. It's the baseline for us seeing Japanese saved. It's the baseline for us starting churches. It really is the, the key thing is that we all get what I call fresh word. And when, when we share this, I say to my team, I don't want you to try to impress me with what you got from God. It's not about impressed, being impressed. It's did you get fresh word? Cause that will sustain you. The, the, every, you know, Jesus said, you know, daily bread. Getting it daily, that, that fresh from heaven. It doesn't have to be deep, but it has to be fresh.

Stephanie Gutierrez: I love that. In our house, we call it fresh manna. My dad raised us that way. Okay. Getting that word from the Lord each day. It's critical. I think it teaches you to, to hear from the Lord. Yeah. 

It's like you were saying with you and Viv, when you heard that big word from the Lord, it was built upon years of hearing the Lord's voice and learning how to discern it and following and obeying. So you weren't so worried about it being something. You know, outrageously crazy off the radar because you had built that foundation. 

So for a young person, it sounds like that can be a task that they can lean into now. What would you say maybe to somebody, we have a lot of young people who are in modern day or serving as missionaries. What would you say to somebody who's maybe college age or 25 and they're still building up that foundation and they feel like they get that big word from the Lord. What are some ways that they can feel secure that it really is a word and not just a pizza dream? 

Rod Plummer: I think they've got to go and see the country or see the city and see who's there, see what the church is like. I think, you know, the, the whole thing of put your feet on the ground and I'll give it to you as a big part of the, the leading. So go on a short term trip, have a look at the positives and negatives. Um, understand concepts such as, um, you know, culture shock or, but I think the biggest thing of all is to make sure you're going to be embedded with a place of faith, whether it's a local church or a house church or a, a mission organization that, that brings that.

I've just seen so many people, not just on missions, but pastoring in Australia too, where people just go out on their own and they've got this incredible dream and no one wants to say to them, don't do it. Watch out. But, but really I've seen so many not do well when they're on their own. 

So the way we always start churches or outreaches is with a team. And even now we're not starting another church right now till we have a team. It's just,  it's just a long road when there's just the two of you or one of you or three of you. It's, people do it and I give them kudos. Well done. You know, that's amazing. But I've seen a lot of people struggle. 

So when we went to Japan, we found a church in Tokyo that was ahead of us. Like we, we had nothing. They had a church. We investigated them. They're actually from Hawaii, the pastors, um, from a great movement there. And, um, I met the pastor before we moved to Japan. I met him in a park. He was there with his daughter and he said, Hey Rod, you know, and we loved each other.

And, um, I said, I'm bringing a little team. Could we sit in your church for three months? Could we just sit and learn from you? Cause you are the, you're the great church. You're, I can see what you're doing is amazing. You're young Japanese and  bilingual church, which we'd never seen. I said, can we just come and sit and have an open agenda? We are going to plant a church, but when we leave you in three months, we're not taking your people.

Like it really is invested in you. We'll tithe to you. We'll be with you. We want to learn from you. But we are going to church plant. So we did what we said and they did what they said and we're still friends 23 years later. Best friends. Like really has been amazing. So I'd say if there is a church ahead of you on the journey, it would be a great investment to be there with an open agenda.

What I mean by open agenda is, you know, if we had gone there and thought, now who can we take with us? Then that's a closed agenda or a secret agenda. But an open agenda is, hey. This is who we are, this is what we got, could we learn, but we are going to leave and we're going to do this, and fulfill that. I think it's really important that we, uh, find those people ahead of us on the trip.

And I say to Talo, now his name's Pastor Talo Satoraka, good buddy. I say, Pastor Talo, you remember when we did that, he said, yeah, right, yeah, and he's from Hawaii, big, big Hawaiian guy. Yeah, right. I remember that. Yeah.  And, uh, I say, has anyone ever, ever else ever done that? Like brought their team to you and learn?

He said, no, right. You were the only one. Now that was a few years ago. Maybe there's someone now, but it saved us years. Stephanie, it saved us years. We learned,  uh, how these Hawaiian people use their Hawaiian culture.  They use hula. They use ukuleles. Um, you sort of think, well, you know, that's not really contextualizing, is it?

Well, it is because Japanese love Hawaii  and love it. And they love ukulele. They love hula. And that church still use it to this day. So we observed that and we thought, well, we're Australian. We can't do hula.  And especially me.  And we can't do ukulele. Uh, we can bring some, some Aussie rock songs in and we can, but we did learn this that you don't have to be totally Japanese to connect with Japanese.

You just have to be yourself and love the Japanese. And there is going to be an audience that likes it. So we Aussies, you know, I don't know how much you know about Aussies, but we're sort of pretty flexible. I think it's probably a, a key thing as we fit in, like we're sort of like the little, the little sister country, you know, that we don't threaten anyone and, um, but we're sort of goofy.

And so we, we looked at the Hawaiians, we thought we can't do that, we can't do that, but we can be goofy. And what does that mean? It means that we meet people on the street and say, hello, we're from Australia, want to be friends. And that worked. But we learn it by being in that church and then contextualizing to us, because we couldn't be them.

So we learned that. We learned bilingual church, like English and Japanese from the front. It was entertaining. It was excellent. You could watch in the Japanese. They didn't lose interest. I thought, okay, this is a form. This is a dramatic form of preaching that we can do as well. So we tried that, and it still works. So we learned, I think, years of stuff from being in relationship with that church, and we're still friends to this day. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Well, and I'm thinking of all the missionaries who are currently on the ground. I think the majority of our listeners are currently serving. 

Rod Plummer: Yeah. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: And they can still do that.  I mean, sometimes we think, Oh, well, I'm already there. So too late. But I mean, I remember like, for example, we were, um, my in laws had a church there and we were planting a campus for them. And we would go on Sunday nights to Camino de Vida, the church that we became a part of. And we would observe how they were doing things. Pastor Robert took us under his wing at that time.

And we learned so much that were help, was helpful then to where we were at. Obviously we ended up at Camino de Vida.  I don't think you have to. Only do that at the beginning. I think it's a great idea in the beginning, but even if you're there, it's the humility of asking another pastor. And maybe if you don't want to threaten them, pick a church an hour away.

Rod Plummer: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. But I think open agenda is the key that if, if, if you do that, but then you're trying to surreptitiously do your thing and invite them, that's going to be a bad feeling. Yes, it is. So open agenda. This is who we are. We're not taking your people. That, I think that was such a key thing.

Um, and we're still friends with quite a few of their team, right, who, who was still there from us and them, uh, to this day, it's, it's the most amazing connection and opening up other relationships through that. And Talo is very well connected through Japan. So there's other pastors we met and it was just a great way to enter the country.

And then you've got friends and  that's such a big deal. You've got other pastor friends who you can talk to, share ideas with, and have relationship with, because it's lonely when you first go  over there. And you have no fruit. Like, and as you said, with all the names given over Japan, you know, um, graveyard admissions, hard, dark, whatever, resistant, all those words.

And we go to a church that's actually seeing fruit.  That's a really, it's powerful, right? I mean, like you said, with Camino de Vida, you, you saw fruit, you saw life, you saw, so any of those other things that you, you've heard about.  Um, you, you have to put it in a basket, like, okay, maybe that's true in the past or maybe that's true in this context.

For example, we, we went to Japan specifically to reach young people. Now that seems like a given, but really we did. We went to reach university students on their campuses and we knew that was who was open to the gospel. So people say, why don't you reach like 40 year olds? And my answer is, well, if you come and help me, maybe we can, because we can't, we really feel we're called to this group.

Now, 23 years later, of course, we've got so many people in the forties. So we grew into that,  but at the beginning we couldn't start with that. So if I hear negatives, I think, well, maybe it was for  this age or this group or this demographic or this, um, but for us, I had to stay with what God said, I'm going to move like a wave.

Yeah. I hope that doesn't sound arrogant. It's just what God said. So put your head down and just go ahead. with your team and do what I told you to do. And that's what we did. There's nothing like a clear word from the Lord to just propel you forward when everything seems to be falling apart or not moving at all.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. I want to touch on something you mentioned earlier about the Hawaiians just being Hawaiian because they recognized that was attractive to the Japanese. And for you guys, just being goofy Australians and how that was attractive. And I know for you guys, you've mentioned you had an English-speaking church, or bilingual, which is interesting too.

I mean, that would maybe not always work in all contexts, but you found a felt need there in Japan. All right. There are a lot of people who would love to learn to speak English. We can provide that. I'd love to hear a little bit about how you did that. And then secondly, how can missionaries discover some of those felt needs in the areas they're serving in and, and discover how they're uniquely created to meet those needs?

Rod Plummer: Wow. So many parts of parts of your question there. 

Um, how can we, I just think you've got to go in again with a team. Without a team, even though Viv and I had been successful as pastors, it doesn't mean we would have been successful. In fact, I don't think we would have. I think the team was our, our master, master stroke.

Um, but the team was just totally, um, no one spoke Japanese. One girl had done some high school Japanese. Um, we had no young Japanese in that team, but we were really,  we had nothing. So day one, we decided we're going out to Starbucks. Thank you for Starbucks. Yeah. Uh, it was the only restaurant or coffee shop that was no smoking in those days too.

The only one. So that became our home. We went there and we were just looking around who's reading English books or who's got an English book. Open or. outside the, the university that had the English program. So we were going to increase our hit, hit rate of reaching English speaking Japanese.  So we did that.

And then, uh, some of those people became our translators, although they weren't yet believers.  Because they're really excited to be our translators, like these silly Australians, Oh, could you do this for us? And Japanese, Japanese love to be invited.  One of the things we learned early was Japanese are not what the book said.

The book said Japanese are stoic and you won't see their emotions. We learned day one that was not true  for that generation. I keep saying that every time I say it, for the generation when we're trying to reach, that first day in the coffee shop, we met people, we made friends. Uh, there was no Instagram back then, but whatever we did, even exchange emails, whatever it was, we, we learned to do that from day one.

Uh, some people call me a bad missionary or a disruptive missionary because we didn't really learn Japanese, but we connected with our audience straight away. And we would ask the, the ones who spoke English, can you help us? And they say, Oh, what are you? And we, you know, we're here for, we're Christians or we believe in Jesus.

And, uh, and they'll say, Oh, I don't want to believe in Jesus. And we'd say that, no problem. Just, would you help me? Oh, sure. So, as long as we had this conversation, they just love translating. Um, we bring out the, you know, cards and playing. So straight away we connected with our audience  day one and day two and every day.

And we had some real big disappointments, people we thought were going to get, uh, believers in Jesus and they walked away. We had all those experiences, ups and downs, but we stuck to that, um, profile of continually trying to reach, um, Japanese who spoke some English. And then they became our interpreters and then some got saved.

And then some of those became our pastors or, or church leaders as well.  So even now, um, we would bring American teams in, which we love to bring great American teams. Day one, what do we do? Starbucks, universities. And so the teams come in from churches all around, all around the world, but mainly U. S. First day, the young team are sort of scared, you know, we're in Japan, what are they going to be like?

And  Starbucks, you know, Frisbee, spike ball, end of the day, they're sort of like, we got this, you know, like not arrogant, but just, we, we, we're in the culture. We can make friends with Japanese. And so from day one, we're getting Instagram now. We're getting Uh, connections, and we invite them to, it's an American team.

We invite them to American parties and we're going to have hot dogs and, and, and we play up the American culture because Japanese love Americans. They love foreign, they love culture. And so we would say to American teams, don't, don't try to be Japanese. They want to meet you as Americans. So you know, I can't act like an American or I, but Hey everyone, we're from America, whatever.

Um, and the Japanese go, Oh. So it's giving them permission to be with us. Come with us. Come with us with Spike Ball. Hey, come and play with us. Uno,  come and play. So the whole concept is to, to, to see the audience and speak to the audience and get to know them. And Japanese are very emotional on the surface. 

So, um, I don't know what to say that we just. reach the culture day one. And I think we learned the cultural code very early. God gave us insight to a number of things very early. Like, so, just a summary. Japanese are open.  Japanese know nothing of Christ. Nothing. Zero. They've never seen a Bible. Okay, that's all true. But it's not because they're hard and it is not because they're resistant. So there's some of the words we heard, okay, they're not that. And but what is it? Well, they've never heard anything of, of cross, resurrection, Bible. So here you're working with a quite open culture, youth culture,  just don't know anything.

So it changed the way we saw mission from they're hard to they know nothing.  And that's a big difference. Like when, when we talk to foreigners that are people who are. like, no knowledge. Sometimes there's a thinking they're against Jesus or they're against. Japanese have no against.  They just have no for, they don't know.

So we realized we just had to then take them through a Bible verse and I'm getting more into strategy now, but we, we still do the same thing today that we have to take them through a bunch of Bible studies, a small group, um, and then finally an experience of church. But we did that in the very first year.

And, um, when we started our church after three and a half months or three months actually, we had a little band, few of us and, but we all invited our friends. The first day we had 33 people. So me and my wife, two boys and 10 young Australians. Well, that's 14.  And there was 33 there. Well, the rest were non Christian.

We might've had another couple of Christians, but you know what I'm saying? Like 15 were our friends that we'd made in coffee shops. And  that doesn't mean that came the next week. So the next week we didn't have 33. We had 31. The next week we had 29. We only had a few weeks left, right? We were going to go out backwards, but 20, 20 might've been 27 was the lowest.

And then we, we saw people's getting saved and we saw people being more, although they're saying, I'm not a Christian, I'm only coming for the English. And we say, that's fine. No problem. Come along. Uh, so they're in our midst saying, we're not interested. We're not interested. But one by one, they started to get interested as they were touched by God.

Stephanie Gutierrez: And that's another story in this story. I would love for you to share the story, the story of the first guy who accepted Christ. I heard that the other day. I really enjoyed it. 

Rod Plummer: Well, he came to church, um, as a student, a math student, very high university, very smart young man, but very shy. So he, he wouldn't even look at you.

He'd look at your feet and he'd say, he said, Oh, um, in fact, the first time he ever met me, he said, Oh, what do you do? And I said, I'm a pastor. He went, okay. It was months later, months later after he actually got saved, he said, when you said you were a pastor, I thought a pastor (“pasta” said with an Australian accent) is a noodle. Oh, why is this man a noodle?

So this is sort of confession later on. So he comes the first day and he says, I, um, I've only come here for English. I don't want Jesus. So that's fine. Great. So few times in, he says, could I play the drums in your little team? And  Uh, we only had a little team, but we had a very good drummer, a young Australian drummer.

So I said, Oh, that's the one instrument I, we're filled, but could you play the bass?  Because the bass is like the drums, right? And anyone listening to this now who's a musician goes, no, um,  and his answer was very Japanese. His answer is, today I can't play the bass, but next Sunday I can,  and he asked for the sheet music, took it, bought a bass, brand new, practiced probably 24 hours a day.

I call it. a Japanese thing.  I can next week, so he's got to do it next week.  And next week he comes with his, on his back, a brand new bass. He opens it up, takes it out and tunes up with the band without talking to us.  You just joined the band. Yeah. And he did good as a non Christian. And some people will say, well, can you have non Christians in the band?

Well, we did. And we had a singer who wasn't a Christian and she's there singing Jesus. He has no idea.  Uh, But she was the second one to get saved. But the first guy to get saved, Yuya,  uh, he's still with us. He's married, three kids,  um, just incredible journey from, I'm here, not for Jesus, to  the first verse, another few verses, reading the Bible, small group, church, um, and then it was actually at the beach one day, he said, Pastor Ron, I want to tell you something.

I said, what's that? He said, I want to receive Jesus now. And I called all my 10 Australians, all of us together, I said, you, yeah, can you say it again? He said, I want to believe in Jesus today. And my whole 10 Australians started crying,  just, just weeping, boys and girls, just young adults, just crying. And they said, if it was for this one, we would have come to Japan. 

First one was so powerful for us. He got baptized.  Um, and he, he was in the band for a long time,  uh, became a, a, a small group leader later on. And, um,  so that was the beginning and that one, that first disciple really changed us from  a mission that was just existing, just hanging on to an actual, um, church.

It was that first soul. It was that important. Yeah. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: So I'm hearing some themes here. As you're talking, I'm hearing head, heart, and humility. So you did have some research and thought that went into it. You did study the culture. You did ask around. You did plan and visit. 

Then there was the heart. There was that word from the Lord that just pulled you there and kept you there when it was hard. And then this posture of humility. So all that you'd studied and learned, you'd heard about the Japanese. You went in still not assuming it was going to be that way, but with an open mind and an open heart, and you found things that were actually quite contradictory or different.

What a good reminder for people as they go into cultures, learn as much as you can and let God surprise you. 

Rod Plummer: Yep. It wasn't just, um, like, people saying  Japanese are hard. It was actually travel books and, and secular books like the whole, the whole gamut of, of literature and, and, and verb, verbiage was saying it's hard and they're close, but we went in with that vision. 

And so we went there expecting to see fruit. We really were not because we were better than anyone else, but we just, that's where we went. We went there to see fruit, to see Japanese saved.  And I think just the, the, the, uh, immersion into the Japanese culture, but not losing who we were as Australians, I think that works for anyone.

Japanese love culture, whether you're from Samoa or Hawaii or U. S. or Germany, they love culture. We learnt that straight away. Where are you from? We're from Australia. Oh, kangaroos, you know. So, just straight away, um, a lot of those things is cut. Another one we were told was Japanese will never make a decision for Christ on their own.

It needs to be the whole family.  We found that was not true, that young Japanese were quite willing to make their own decision. In fact, most of their families did not become believers after years.  Now we're seeing more. In fact, during the COVID years, online was the best thing possible to see some of their families saved because their families started watching us.

Oh yeah. Cause they're watching it in their houses. Yeah.  And they, some of them got saved, but they still won't come to church, but they're still watching online. So we learned that there was a way of reaching So the 40s, 50 year olds that might look different than the rest getting saved, but that's for another story. 

But we just learned early that, um, Oh, here's another one. We, we, we talked to a, uh, a U.S. uh, expat guy who does research in Tokyo. And he said, uh, Nike, Nike and Coca Cola do research in Tokyo for their new products because they always know they'll get an honest appraisal from the youth on the streets of, so, you know, put up a stall, Coca Cola, wherever it is, have taste, do you like it?

Yes, no. Japanese will just tell you straight up. So when we hear these stories, it's like, hang on, this is a bit different. This is, so we're learning, we're learning those sorts of things. And also in 2002, when we arrived, was the Soccer World Cup in Japan. Oh, yeah. And we saw the Japanese young people  through the streets singing their songs of Japan, Japan, Japan, Japan.

And then they get on the train and be totally silent and  don't say anything. Get off the train. Japan, Japan. And so I'd say to the Japanese, you're not so quiet.  You're not quiet. You're, you're, you've just been teasing. And our Japanese, they, oh, Pastor Rod, maybe we are quiet. I said, no, you're not quiet. So again, that goofy Australian teasing, not, not challenging, just teasing, having fun. Come and, come and have fun with us. Oh, okay. 

So being an Australian team, we just did that really, really well. And we actually saw quite a few people baptized in the first year.  It was amazing. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: So you didn't go in with either. I think one of two extremes would be, you know, the white savior complex. We are here to make you better and we have something that you need, which no culture I think appreciates when you come in with superiority.

And then the other side would be complete and utter immersion. Which, you know, in some cultures might be appropriate, but in Japan, it was kind of that middle ground. Yep. I like, I think people, people also, they know when you like them. Sometimes we think love is enough. People need to know you like them.

Rod Plummer: Absolutely. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: And that's what I'm hearing in your story. You guys went in liking them and making them feel welcomed and wanted. And what a gift. 

Rod Plummer: And it's been so much fun. I mean, this is the greatest mission field in the world.  They're really fun. Yeah.  Um, so again, permission, like Japanese don't want to lose face.

That's true. But if we're the goofy ones and it's all on us, come and have fun with us. And if it's all on us, then they're safe. And that's what we discovered too. Like we, we were the fools. We were the,  we were the silly ones, um, and they're not going to be having on their faces about anything. And just permission, permission to come and have fun with us.

So that we're talking in English, they can't understand English and they're just sort of hanging out like they're, like they're understanding. And then we've got some other translators, but we make a scene. We just make a scene wherever we were, you're in. 

And this became very important with discipleship too, to include them in everything. 

So as the church started to grow, I said to our team, we cannot have secret meetings. We can't have a leadership meeting. Now there was pastoral meetings, but any leadership meeting we had had to be open to a non Christian because they're probably going to turn up. Someone's going to invite them and you will not say no to them at the table. 

And just like many cultures of the world, exclusion is sin. It's sin in Japan. Exclusion in any point is sin. Cause if you go to their home, they will do their very best. They'll bring their tea, their special tea and their cookies and they'll bow and they'll, and you just feel like a King or a Queen. If they come on your turf and they're not included, they won't come again.

They have been excluded.  It's a big deal. And I think it's a big deal in many Asian and Middle Eastern cultures. This reversal of hospitality that we really, so we could not have a leadership meeting and have a non Christian show up and say, you have to go. We'd say, come on in. 

So we had to plan everything. All our knowledge, all our teaching had to be from the leader to the non Christian. And again, that really got into our preaching as well, that this concept of very broad spectrum of, uh, development of preaching and teaching,  which has really helped us a lot, I think to this day. So again, um, permission, come on in and you're welcome in every meeting.

Um, they turn up early to the, the dream team meeting where we're, um, they, they probably can't, they can't join the team, but they can be in the environment where we're going to pray and we're going to thank you Lord. And, and they're looking at us and, Hey, come and join us up the front to stand here. And  they want to be included. 

Absolutely. So we thought we found that early inclusion. And inclusion and hospitality work in, in some way, shape or form in every culture. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: So I love that today, as you've shared, you've shared some really fun, specific things about Japanese culture and Australian culture and how those work together and how you found those and the Lord, some of the Lord just gave you insights on and you use those.

But you also brought up some broad themes, because for missionaries listening, they might be in a totally different context. Totally. But there are things that they can do, I think based on what you shared, that will work as well. But studying the culture, but then being a part of the culture, asking the Lord, how can I be myself and also somehow fit in to their culture?

What else would you say to missionaries who might be serving in a different context? 

Rod Plummer: You're right. Everything's different. And, uh, but we have churches in other countries in Asia too, and we're doing the same things in all those cultures. Probably the most Christian of the cultures we work with is Hong Kong.

It's not a Christian culture, but it's, I think it's five percent Christian. That's very different.  But we discovered in Hong Kong, the people are very, very studious and very hardworking more than just about any culture in the world. But we've discovered the same things of inclusion and fun. We discovered that we needed to be the fool.

We did. So there was some things that were similar and there was some things that were different. So our pastor there in Hong Kong, we talked through so many, so many hours about what's similar and what's different. So I just think it is sitting down with others in associated, you know, fields and finding out, you know, different culture, different language. Yeah, I get that. But there's some things that worked, but I think that curiosity  is the key.  I actually say to people, a good missionary likes video games. What? Yeah, you like playing the level, finding the gems,  you know, save the princess,  kill the villain and go to the next level. I actually see that as discovery. 

Um, and if you enjoy that, speaking of the men here and some of the women, if you enjoy that concept of discovery. You'd be a great missionary. It's just, it's just going to be constant discovery. I'm still discovering 23 years later. I've got Masashi, my youth pastor here with me, and it would be every single week I would ask him what's happening on the campus, what are you discovering?

So I'm still in discovery because culture changes in 23 years and Japanese are not the same as they were. So, to me, that is very exciting, but I would do that in Australia too,  with my university guys in Australia. I would ask them the same questions. So this is not like the mission field. To me, this is seeing culture shift with Gen Z and then Gen A, whatever it is, I would be asking lots of questions, and if that, is their materials working or not working? What's changed? Why aren't we, why isn't that working anymore? 

We do a lot of stuff online, so there's lots of platforms we try. Some of them stop working. So, I mean, some countries. Uh, they're banned or changes or, um, for example, in Japan, they say that Facebook is really for ladies over 40, for mothers is sort of a major group.

But if you want to reach youth, it's going to be TikTok or Insta. So we, I mean, most people will know this, but we keep up with that.  Platforms have shifted and changed and have new, we're always on that. And to me, that is not a, a difficult thing. It's just a, I call it a five minute update. Hey, what's happening again? What's going on? Just, just hearing from my team.  

We're also getting a lot of Filipinos.  You know, our church is the second group we get in Japan cause they want to live in Japan and they're coming over  and that's a different people group. They're Catholic and um, they're coming in for pretty, pretty hot for the gospel actually. So I say to our team, God is bringing us reinforcements from that country.  Um, and so we say to our Filipinos that they've got to receive Jesus and, um, but if they're from one particular church, we know in the Philippines, we know they're already discipled  Welcome to, welcome to mission. Come on the team.

And so we're using our, our foreigners. We have a number of Americans that might come for Australians, very few Australians, but, uh, we might, they might come, how long are you here for? For two years. Great. Thank you for coming on mission to Japan. And they look at us like, what? I said, yeah, you're going to be successful in your job. God will bless you. But why don't you come on mission? Cause you're in the second most unreached people group. in the planet. And God's brought you here to be a missionary with us. And most people, I'd say 90 percent of our foreigners after the initial shock,  come back the following week and say, yeah, that sounds really good. 

So they, they don't speak Japanese either, but they're on the team and they're going to bring someone from their workplace.  Um, so I see, I call them gifts from overseas. God gives us people for two years or one year or the Filipinos for life. They're sort of like, uh, reinforcements.  Um, So whoever comes in is on the team.

I actually, actually, I, uh, we had this young guy, um, come in a really nice looking young man from San Diego, young guy, professional,  um, obviously an Asian background. So I asked about his background. No, he's not Japanese, but, uh, whatever his background was, it was great. And, um, you know, just American, uh, from some background and he put his hand up in church that day and he's such a good looking, happy young man.

I thought it was a recommitment.  So I said to him, Mark. You know, now you've got Jesus come on the team with us and help us win Japanese. And he said, what's a team, what's a mission? And then I heard later, he was an atheist who just got saved,  but he's been with us now for three, four months. He's there every Sunday, smiling a new, new believer.

So we do get a lot of foreigners saved too. We baptize foreigners.  We've had one Italian girl. She came to Japan to learn Buddhism  and she found Jesus with us. And  so it's just seeing. Whoever we've got come into, come into our mission. It's fun. It's happy. And some people don't want to, and there's great churches for them as well. So it's not a problem. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: But that inclusiveness and that fun is just a part of who you guys are. It's a part of your culture and for missionaries listening, maybe that's something they can adapt into what they're doing, or maybe it's saying, Lord, what are some unique things about us, how you've wired us that you can use to impact the culture?

But in all of this, it keeps coming back again to I think the head, the heart and the humility in being able to do the impossible. You believed the crazy things God gave you to do. You did your best to learn. Yeah. And then you just went with that humble attitude and you continue to try new things, inviting foreigners on the team and letting people play the base the second we'd out. Well, not letting, discovering, I guess, that he had joined the team, but I mean, trying all these, these new things that maybe nobody else has tried before, which is so huge. So thank you so much for taking the time to share all of that.  

Rod Plummer: My pleasure, Stephanie, and blessings to all the wonderful people. Thank you.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Could I ask you to pray us out?  

Rod Plummer: Lord, I want to thank you that You do speak today and you speak very clearly through your word and through your Holy Spirit. I pray that everyone will be getting just that, that really encouraging word from you today. You'd be lifting people and helping people in their environments, in their contexts.

I also pray Lord for insight from the Holy Spirit. Lord, your word says you're going to teach us all things that we need. And I pray Holy Spirit you teach us in our contexts and it might be very, very different than my context, but I pray you'd give them and gift them new people, salvations and, and reinforcements from around the world.

And there'd just be such a unity of mission and joy in Jesus' name. Amen.  

Thanks for joining us today. You can find all of our episodes on MDMPodcast.org.  Since 2008, Modern Day Missions has been providing financial, administrative, and marketing services to Christian missionaries around the globe.

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