S06E10 Can Prayer Really Change Anything? with Peter Warren

Do you ever wonder if your prayers are really making a difference? Or feel frustrated when you don’t see results? If you pray and something doesn’t happen, was it worth it or a waste of time? Does God already have planned out what he’s going to do anyway?

In this episode, we talk with missionary Peter Warren, a leader in YWAM, who brings a fresh take on how prayer works and why it matters. We dive into what it means to co-create with God through prayer, if prayer can actually change things, and what role persistence plays. If you've ever struggled with prayer or questioned its impact, this conversation will encourage you and give you a whole new perspective!

✍️ In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How we can partner with God through prayer to impact real outcomes
• Why some prayers take time and how persistence plays a key role
• How to align our prayers with God’s will and desires
• What it looks like to persist in prayer, even when we feel discouraged
• What it means to co-create with God

💡Questions to Ponder as You Listen:

• Do I really believe my prayers can change things, or do I feel like I’m wasting time?
• How do I approach prayer—am I expecting God to respond, or just checking a box?
• Am I praying for what God wants, or am I trying to steer things my own way?
• What does it look like for me to partner with God through prayer?
• How can I keep praying when it feels like nothing’s happening?

Thanks for listening! Email us your questions at care@modernday.org

Website · YouTube · Facebook · Instagram · TikTok · X · LinkedIn

Chapters

• 0:35 Meet Peter Warren
• 0:55 The Power of Prayer
• 5:48 Personal Stories of Prayer
• 9:05 Challenges and Misconceptions About Prayer
• 12:25 The Concept of Accumulated Prayers
• 17:29 Understanding God's Will in Prayer
• 26:22 Principles of Intercessory Prayer
• 30:18 Hearing God's Voice in Prayer
• 39:27 Conclusion and Final Prayer
• 41:36 Closing Remarks and Resources

Transcript

Welcome to Modern Day Missionaries, a podcast by Modern Day. Missions created for missionaries by missionaries. I'm your host, Stephanie Gutierrez Do you ever wonder if your prayers are really making a difference? If you pray, if something doesn't happen, was it worth it or waste of time? This guy. We have planned out what he's going to do anyway. In this episode with Peter Warren, we look at what it means to co-create with God through prayer. The fascinating different Greek words for God's will we find in scripture and what happens to all of our unanswered prayers?

[00:00:33] Stephanie Gutierrez: Hey, Peter, it's so good to have you today. 

[00:00:38] Peter Warren: Stephanie, good to see you again.

[00:00:41] Stephanie Gutierrez: You too. I'm sorry. You can probably tell we've been laughing a lot before we got started, which is a great way to begin.

[00:00:47] Peter Warren: Telling stories. Yeah. 

[00:00:50] Stephanie Gutierrez: I know. We said we should have hit record beforehand. 

[00:00:53] Peter Warren: Yes. It's good to be with you today.

[00:00:55] Stephanie Gutierrez: It's good to have you, and like I was just saying in the intro, we're talking about prayer today.

And Peter, I want to just hear, you wrote a book on prayer and there are so many books on prayer and teaching on prayer out there, but you brought up some fresh stuff. And tell me about your desire to even write a book on prayer.

What did you sense was missing or what you had to add to the conversation? 

[00:01:19] Peter Warren: Yeah, probably just from experience, Stephanie, of meeting people who were frustrated, discouraged, because they felt that God wasn't answering their prayers, and just the need for perseverance in prayer. And then also, I think there are some different perspectives people have, including men, women of God that I respect and, but have a little slightly different perspective.

And so whenever I do this, I'm talking to students, I say, I'm taking off my Bible teacher hat right now. And I want to talk to you as a brother in the Lord, because there are others who feel differently. And it's, it's, uh, just this perspective, which is a little fatalistic, uh, that, ee only pray out of obedience, because Jesus told us to, or, um, prayer only changes you, but it doesn't change outcomes. 

And my, my feeling is that prayer actually does change things. I love what Billy Graham said on one occasion. He said, we can change the course of events if we go to our knees in believing prayer. And so with that perspective, I saw in the body of Christ as I was traveling and ministering that a lot of people were either frustrated because God wasn't answering their prayers, or they just were involved in some perfunctory, you know, praying by rote or just, but without the perspective that their prayers actually mattered and had the ability to change their lives, certain things, certain outcomes in their lives and the lives of others. So that, that was probably the main motivating factor for me.

[00:02:58] Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. And you came at this angle, um, of creation, which I really enjoyed. I'd been, I've been reading through the book of Genesis, just started all over again at the beginning when your book came. And so it was such perfect timing for me. I'm reading about the creation story right through Genesis one, and then I'm reading about creating and you, you talk about how we co create with God.

How does that differ from the way a lot of people traditionally approach prayer?

[00:03:23] Peter Warren: Yeah. So if, if prayer really does change outcomes, not, not any outcome, because and, uh, we have to align our prayers with God's will, what, with his preferred…but when we, when we pray to see a change, how does that work with God? Well, it seems that God has possibly left some things in flex, some things for us to partner with him to bring about a solution. So, I begin with the opening page of the Bible, the first verse, in the beginning, those first five words, in the beginning, God created.

So think of that, God created. Was that God created? Was that the last time he created something? Thousands of years ago? Or is he still creating new things? Because he's called the Living God. So as a living, creative being, uh, then if he's creating new things right now, 2024, God is creating things, some of it is depending on the situation we're in.

Does he give us, his image bearers in the world, the opportunity to, to co create with him, to come alongside of him? We know he's called us to manage the planet. That he gave us dominion. Does that include our prayers? And so my argument, maybe argument's the wrong word, but my, my contention is, uh, yes, God wants us to co create with him, to align our prayers with him, his will, and birth new things in prayer.

So, so that's how the title came about, creating with God.

[00:05:13] Stephanie Gutierrez: Hmm. And I love that thinking about how God's just invited us into that partnership with him. I mean, we see that in such an, I think a really obvious apparent way when we look at, you know, children, babies, like that opportunity as parents of getting to co create. a human being with God, where he, he puts the spirit in, we get to contribute to the body.

I mean, it's just wild how it all comes together. That's such a visible representation, but there's so many other ways in which God's inviting us to co create with him. What would be some of those for you that you've seen? 

[00:05:48] Peter Warren: Well, the, the first step for me was a situation that happened in my life when I was when I was a teenager. I kind of backslid and turned away from the Lord, was going my own way, uh, and ended up in jail in, in Europe, in the Netherlands. Uh, I was going to meet up with some of my mates in Greece. We're going to hitchhike what was back then the hippie trail that went then through Turkey and Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Nepal, began in Amsterdam.

And I got arrested. Who gets arrested in Amsterdam back in the late 70s? Uh, it was called the magical center of Europe. Everything went, but they arrested me, put me on a plane back to Australia after being in jail for a few days. And at the airport in Australia, my, my mom and dad met me and my dad said these words. So we've been praying for you the whole time you've been gone. 

And over the coming weeks and months, especially after I rededicated my life to the Lord, I began to wonder what role their prayers played in the events that took place. I believe that they, they did. I lost track of my friends who were continuing on in their journey, uh, and I recommitted my life to Christ. They, they just went on a different pathway. God didn't make me come back to him, but he made it easier for me to come back to him, uh, by the events that took place, and I truly believe it was because of my parents, uh, prayers for me. And that then has motivated my wife and me to always be bringing things to him in prayer.

Like that old hymn that says, um, see if I can get the words right, you know, how, how often we, uh, I can't remember the exact words, but we, we miss out on certain things because we don't bring everything to him in prayer. And so that was the big event in my life where I began to realize, wow, God orchestrated this because of my parents prayers, because, uh, he honored that and he changed the course of my life, yeah,

[00:08:12] Stephanie Gutierrez: I resonate with that just thinking the whole parent child thing, I mean, even just yesterday I was driving. I had to make a long drive because one of my daughters forgot something where she was at. And normally I would have listened to an audio book and it was half an hour there and a half an hour back. And I felt so strong in my heart to just pray for our other daughter.

And when I got home, we'd talked on the phone and she's like, wait, when were you praying? And she'd had this profound conversation with the Lord and this really important insight she'd been waiting on right during the moment that I had been praying. And you just go, Oh, thank you, Lord, that you are in work.

And there are times like that where we get to see it. And there are so many times that we never do. And we do just get to trust that he's doing something, but he is, he's at work. 

Peter, I know you do a lot of teaching on prayer and you've had so many YWAM students come through. What are some of the biggest, uh, frustrations people have about prayer or misconceptions? What are, what are people really wanting to know about prayer that they're not getting? 

[00:09:18] Peter Warren: Um, yeah, I think it's, it's when we don't see results that we become discouraged. That’s probably, if it's not the main thing, it's, it's one of the main things, that people then give up on prayer. Jesus said in Luke 18, when you have need of endurance. Uh, you know, and, uh, no, no, he said, don't lose heart. It’s Hebrews 10:36, where it says, you have need of endurance, so that when you've done the will of God, you may receive the promises. And so, uh, there is an aspect of praying and praying and praying and then continuing to pray.

 Uh, I remember hearing someone once give a definition for faith. They said, faith is prayin until. And then dot, dot, dot, you know, an ellipsis, you, you, you keep on praying. And so I mentioned in my book, the story of, that I read of George Mueller. Oh, actually, I don't think I've put that one in the book. I used a different story, but George Mueller had eight of his friends that were unsaved that he decided I'm going to pray for them.

And one by one, they all came to Christ, except one stubborn, stiff necked buddy of his that just refused to bend the knee to God. And, uh, he was asked about it and he said, he's going to come to Christ. Uh, I've been praying for him for 63 years and eight months. He’s not saved yet, but he's going to, how could it be?

Otherwise I'm praying. Well, anyway, George Mueller died. Never saw his friend come to Christ, but at his funeral, as they're lowering the casket into the ground, the Holy Spirit just came down upon this guy, and he fell on his knees, and he cried out to Lord, he said, Lord, have mercy on a sinner like me, and he gave his life to Christ.

So, even though Mueller never saw this with his physical eyes, you know, we're going to be there one day in that great hall of the redeemed when he spots his friend there across the multitude. And how many things we don't even know, uh, we haven't seen the results like you saw. Your daughter, you were able to see immediately, wow, I prayed, God, God led me to do this, and there was this breakthrough. Sometimes we don't see the breakthroughs, and that's where I've seen a lot of people give up on prayer, or feel like, well, prayer doesn't really work, or they, or they become fatalistic in their faith worldview. “Well, you know what? Everything is just kind of set in motion. There's nothing I can do anyway.” 

Uh, you know, uh, uh, that, that phrase, then, uh, everything happens for a reason. I don't like that phrase, uh, because I don't think everything happens for a reason, but I do think God weaves everything together, right? Romans 8:28, you know, works all things together for good for those who love them, but some things happen that are not him. So I think people become fatalistic or people sometimes feel like prayer doesn't work and they give up on prayer.

[00:12:24] Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. And you, uh, when you talk about that in the book, you bring up accumulated prayers and you reference, um, the bowls of the saints prayers in Revelation. I'd love for you to share a little bit about that. I've really enjoyed that part. 

[00:12:36] Peter Warren: Oh yeah, yeah, and um, this is not, uh, my own discovery through reading others, uh, you know, different, different books. Some others have talked about this, and so I did a deep dive into, uh, Into this, in Revelation 5:8, John, in his vision, saw these, these bowls of incense in heaven And he says they were the prayers of the saints.

So probably not just one big bowl, but different bowls depending on the need. So, you know, maybe you're praying for a sick friend who has the flu. You know, that's a smaller bowl. But if you're praying for revival in America, which we need, it's probably a lot bigger bowl that's going to take a lot more prayers.

And then a couple of chapters later, God expands the vision, Revelation 8:5, and, and, uh, and, It says that when those bowls are filled to the brim, they're mixed with fire from the altar and hurled down upon the earth. So, what, what is that? Well, maybe it's God moving in demonstrative, uh, tangible ways in response to our prayers.

Uh, so, there are bowls of incense in heaven that are our prayers. In another passage in Genesis, uh, I've got it written down here somewhere, Genesis, uh, 15:16, God told Abraham that judgment had not yet come on the Amorites. because their sin had not yet reached its full measure. So, sin also has a way of accumulating its force until finally it overflows and judgment comes.

And so, um, one of my heroes, guys that I looked up to and just, uh, met personally and had a great influence on my life was Dr. Jack Hayford, who just went to be with the Lord. So, I've read a number of his books and one of them on prayer. He talks about this this tension between the bowls of prayer and the bowls of sin. Uh, and he says, and I've got, I quote this in my book, uh, the power of the prayers of the saints have a way of counterbalancing the judgment. He says, when God's people move into prayer, God holds off divine judgment until another season. And maybe, I'm praying that's where we're at right now in, in, in our nation.

Uh, why does this happen? Because the bowls of sin and the scales of justice have been balanced by bowls that are filled to overflowing with the prayers of the saints. There comes then, he says, in the divine order of things, moments when one of two things will happen. Either the sufficiency of prayers poured toward heaven will invite the rule of God into human affairs and thereby welcome a divine display of grace, or the bowl of evil will fill to overflowing and judgment will come.

Our role as intercessors is to is to make sure that the bowls of incense never run dry. So, how powerful. And, and so sometimes we give up because the bowl of incense for the specific thing we're praying for is, is bigger. We need to rally more people to pray and, and it just takes time. And that's why it's easy to give up.

I think that's why the Apostle Paul said, pray without ceasing, don't stop praying. And so, you know, think of a loved one, maybe who's far from God, like I was, uh, anyone watching this, maybe you felt like, you know, it's not making a difference. No, it is. It is making a difference. Don't stop praying. Keep praying for them.

It's, it's making a difference. It might take time, uh, but, uh, Lord willing, you won't have to wait for 63 years and 8 months like George Muller, but keep praying because it'll make a difference in the end.

[00:16:42] Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. I love thinking about the fact that prayer is cumulative because it makes you feel like it's not wasted. Cause I think that's a lie. The enemy would want to tell us that your prayer is wasted. It's not making a difference and cause you can't see things happening, but knowing it's just accumulating up there.

And then I always go back if I don't see the results of prayer, let's say someone dies that I've been praying for, or something where you just feel like, well, it's over now. Then I always just go back to, okay, well, faith pleases God. And so, you know what? Even if I didn't get to see it, I still was honoring and pleasing God in some way.

So that's, that's a way that I encourage my heart. I think when I don't see the fruits of, of what I'm hoping for, but I do, I like to imagine those bowls filling up bit by bit by bit. Another thing that you talk about that I really enjoy, Peter, was the two different Hebrew words for God's will. Can you share that?

Because we always talk about praying in line with God's will. Parcel that out, because I had, I honestly had not heard that. So that was really impactful. 

[00:17:48] Peter Warren: It's one of the, you know, if I could, if I could count on both hands that the most impacting, uh, revelations in my life that have affected me, this is one of them. So they're not Hebrew words, they're actually Greek words, so it's in the New Testament, you know, that's fine. So, so let me, let me kind of again reference my book.

So, uh, there are two terms for God's will. Uh, so, the reason this came about, me studying about God's will, was we had a shooting at our ministry in Denver. My first book that I wrote was about that shooting, and actually, thousands of people came to Christ, or rededicated their lives. 

But we lost two of our staff members. A guy shot four of our staff, and two of them died. Tiffany Johnson from up on the Iron Range in Minnesota was one of them. But in the coming weeks, people would say, well, God's in control or everything happens for a reason. And I remember going, I don't believe that. But God, what is your will? Because sometimes, you know, when as a believer, when your house is ready in heaven, Jesus says, Hey, your place is ready. Come on. I'm coming to get you to bring you to live with me forever. It's not a bad thing when we have that eternal perspective. Sometimes people die who don't know the Lord. And, uh, and so what is God's will? If the key to effective prayer is aligning our prayers with the will of God, then what is God's will?

And so in reading different, uh, different books, and one that made a huge impact impact on me was a book by a English theologian called Roger Forster. It's called God's Strategy in Human History. And he mentions these two words. And so they, then I went and did a deep dive into, okay, what are these words?

So two words, two separate words for God's will. Um, one infers a deliberate intentionality on God's behalf, right? His sovereign, big picture will. But the other presupposes a, uh, a preference that God has his wishes or his desires. So the two words and, and anyone that's watching this, please fact check me on this because this is what it says and you can look it up.

So the first is boulema and boulema number. 1 0 1 4, okay, 1, 014. Boulema is to, to plan with full resolve. So there are some things when the, and this is lost in translation when we get to English, it says God's will, it's this word, boulema. So there are some things God has planned with full resolve. No one's going to change any of those things because they're part of God's strategy and history where things are going to go God's way.

But there's another word for God's will, uh, which is thelema, and thelema is Strong's 2307, 2307, okay? And thelema is a wish or desire which we would, we would probably, uh, call this God's preferred will. But, here's the, here's the key, or here's the difference, it can be rejected by man. His thelema can be rejected by man.

His boulema can't. But his thelema can. And so, here are some examples, some scriptures, so 2 Peter 3, 9 says that God is not willing that any should perish, that God is not wanting anyone to perish. It's boulema. God hasn't set in stone, He hasn't planned with full resolve that any should perish. Wow, how incredible is that?

Um, but then, for example, uh, Matthew 6. 10, Jesus said, Pray that my will would be done on earth as it is in heaven. It's thelema. Pray that my, my desires would happen on earth. Why would he tell us, in his modern prayer, uh, to pray that his will would be done on earth, his thelema will, his wishes, if his boulema plans are going to override them whether we pray or not?

Obviously, our prayers, when aligned with God's desires, um, make a difference and can change outcomes. I mean, isn't that powerful? It's incredible. So, so, um, and then one verse that has both words in the same sentence, in the same verse is Luke 22, 42, where Jesus says, Father, if you're willing, he's in the garden of Gethsemane.

Knowing that his impending arrest and crucifixion about to happen, he's in great agony. He's sweating drops of blood, which is a medical condition, hematidrosis under tremendous stress that people have. And, um, and, and, and so, and, and I, I think it wasn't the fact that he knew there'd be physical pain, but the separation from, from the father, that was what he was most agonizing about.

And he said, father, if, if you're willing, boulema am I. If it fits with your big picture plans, remove this cup from me, nevertheless, not my wishes, but yours be done. And so the key is to pray according to God's desired outcome. The things he wants to see, which key in this is to be able to hear his voice, to be able to go, Okay, God, what is it that you want to do in this situation?

And then act in accordance with God in faith, but praying to that end. Um, now to be fair, there are some cases I found where, where God's rule of my will was resisted by human beings. Um, however, it didn't change God's big picture plans. It just removed them from his plan. 

So, so one of them is Luke 7:30 that says the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's, uh, rejected God's purpose for themselves, it says. So, they, they couldn't prevent the new earth and the new heaven and the new earth from coming, but they could if they so chose remove themselves from participating in the new heaven and the new earth. So, yes, when people have resisted God's boulema, plans, and will, uh, they just remove themselves from that, but it doesn't change God's plan.

I mean, Jesus came at a, when the set time had fully come, he came to earth. Jesus is gonna come back again, okay? There are specific things that are part of God's, God's in control of history. There are things that break his heart on earth, that are his will, he has a desired outcome, his preferred will. And those, he wants our involvement in our actions, but also in our prayers to align with his preferred will and pray them into existence.

So that, for me, was like, wow, this is such a revelation and motivated me, Stephanie, to pray. Okay, I need to really take seriously this issue of prayer. So, yeah.

[00:25:26] Stephanie Gutierrez: It really does, Peter. I can sense your excitement and I felt that way when I read it too. You know, it's, it's even neat to think about how, okay, the things that God has set in stone or planned out or that are coming, we, we, we maybe aren't going to change what those things are, but we can change the timing. I mean, we pray for him to come knowing he's coming, but we wanna speed that up. I mean, think as, as missionaries, that's what we're all trying to do. We're like, come Lord Jesus, come. And we're praying and we're inviting people to come to know him, to, to, to help alter that in a sense. So it's, it is, it's interesting to think about the dynamics between those two.

And you talked. you know, a lot about praying for God's desires. So as we are trying to pray for God's desires, say a little bit more about how we can make sure we are lining up with God's will and praying those correct desires into place. 

[00:26:22] Peter Warren: So in YWAM, when we divide up into our intercession groups, so it's one of the foundational values of YWAM, is to be involved in intercessory prayer. We go through these principles of intercession, so any YWAMers watching this will know immediately that. what these principles are. They're not steps, because they don't need to be in a certain order, although the first one probably should be the first.

And it is, uh, I begin by, by asking the Lord, uh, if I have, uh, done something that had, would be hindering my prayers. Because sin does hinder my praying, right? James 5:16 says, it's the prayer of the righteous that has great power, and it's working. 

And so at the first principle is to go, okay, God, have I in my thoughts, my attitudes, my words, my deeds, have I grieved you? Have I done something either violated my conscience or violated your word and just wait on him and confess it? Okay, so that clears the pathway then to be able to hear accurately from God because sin You know, think of, I think it's Psalm 66 18. I think it is. It says, if well, if I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord won't hear me. So there's a barrier when I've got sin in my life. So I have to make sure that I'm right before God. First principle.

Second then, put aside my own desires and imaginations. Clearly, there are things that I'm burdened for that I want to pray for my family or my grandmother who's sick or my, my friend who's lost. But right now, if I really want what's on God's heart for this moment, you know, I table that. I can pray for that at another time, but right now, God, I put aside what I want to pray for. 

Then, bind the enemy. Satan is real. Uh, he, he's not omnipresent like God. He's not everywhere at once, but he has a kingdom of darkness of principalities and powers, you know, thrones, dominions, uh, rulers, authorities, demons, who can interfere, who can try and come as an angel of light. And so we have to take authority over the enemy. So we do that. Just, we usually go around the group and one person will go through one of the principles, speak it out, another person, another one. It's, it's so powerful then, uh, preparing us for being able to hear from God. 

Then, uh, after that, invite the Holy Spirit to come in to speak to us because being filled with the Holy Spirit, I'm not talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. But, you know, be filled, that verb is in the present continuous tense, so we need to ongoing ask him to fill us, because that's where the will of God comes into our minds and hearts. It's the Holy Spirit. who knows what's on God's heart and reveals it to us. So, Holy Spirit, would you come, fill us, give us the mind of Christ today. We want, we want you to, to lead and guide us. 

And, and then we, we wait. We wait on the Lord. And, and then, after a few moments, whoever's the, the leader of the group, you know, goes, okay, has everyone got something? Some people might not have got anything, that's fine. But others will get different things and of what they feel like we need to pray for and, uh, sometimes people get weird stuff and it's, it's not God, it's just they had pizza and a coke the night before, you know, whatever their imagination is still going and, uh, so many times the Lord will give us a consensus, even the same, the same thing, the exact same thing.

So. I don't know if we have time. I can give you some amazing examples of some of them I bring out in the book, but like, like one of them that, and I've got a whole, whole bunch of them, but, but this one was one of the most dramatic ones that I've ever encountered. 

So we, you know, if you're in ministry for a while, you go through ups and downs and we were being sued. Our ministry in Denver was being sued by this guy. We'd sold him this property. He contended that we'd hidden, uh, issues with drywall, which we didn't, but he was suing us for a lot of money. A

nd so we, uh, our attorney, after a few weeks, we're spending a lot of money to mount our defense. And he said, you know what, this is not, it doesn't mean you're guilty, but if that was me, Peter, I would, I would offer him a settlement because this guy's notorious in Denver for going after soft targets Just get out of this because if we can't pay him, let's, it was going to be a trial by jury, even though it was a civil case. Uh, if we couldn't pay him, our attorney was thinking he was suing us for about a million dollars. 

[00:31:26] Stephanie Gutierrez: Wow 

[00:31:27] Peter Warren: He would have access to all our assets and property, uh, and okay, within a month, I think, to be able to sell those to pay for it.

So, so we went, okay, uh, we head out, whole student body, about 200 of us prayed over our leadership team, uh, our eldership, you know, but we don't always call them elders in YOM because, because they're 22 and 23. So, you know, for churches, they go, these guys are elders. Well, that's all we have, you know, but, uh, but so our leadership team, we went, okay, we're going to go in the other room and there were 11 and we were going to ask the Lord, should we settle out of court?

And then how much? Okay, so the first question is fairly easy. Uh, we went around the room, everyone felt yes. Okay, how much? Well, my wife got a text from a friend of hers, who's an intercessor, uh, Melinda Maddox, and, and Melinda said, Linda, I've just been praying, I feel, and she knew what we were doing, I feel you should offer $92,000.

Wow, that's a big number, but okay, thank you, Melinda. Okay, so, um, so I kind of had that in my back pocket, and then we went, okay, how much? And we waited on the Lord. Okay, and we went through this, you know, principles, and then, okay, let's wait on the Lord. You know, what are the chances we all get the same number?

Well, that didn't happen. But actually, something almost as remarkable happened. I don't know if you remember reading this in the book. 

[00:33:00] Stephanie Gutierrez: I do. 

[00:33:02] Peter Warren: So, we go around the room, right, and they're all different numbers, and it's like, ah, good night. Ah. What are we going to do? But one of our guys, who's with Jesus now, Cary Snodgrass, Cary got a scripture. It was Numbers chapter 2, I think. Anyway, it said the number of the army was, uh, 74,600. He was the only one that got a scripture. And I was telling him, write up on the board, 27,000, 72,000. We put Melinda's number, 92 000, in all the numbers, and then Cary’s 74,600. And so everyone's looking at me because I'm the leader thinking I should know what we're to do, which is not often the case.

And it's like, well, I don't know what to, and then a couple of, a couple of people said, Hey, let's average the numbers. We average the numbers. Uh, Stephanie, it comes to 74,600. I mean, how absolutely will. Out of those 12 numbers, including the scripture, 74,600. And so immediately, we didn't have the money, but the pressure lifted.

I knew God was with us. He was going to supply. Someone gave us an on interest loan, some others gave money, and we offered him a settlement and he took it. And, how incredible, just, just the faith, because see, faith comes from hearing, and hearing comes from the word of the Lord. It's the word rhema, not logos.

Faith comes, Romans 10:17 faith comes from having a rhema word. A fresh word of the Lord, then it stimulates your faith, to go, man, I can rise at occasion and pray for this. 

[00:34:49] Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. Uh, it's such a great story. I love that when I, when I read it in the book. Yeah. So I'm glad that you mentioned it again. Cause it is, it's really impacting. Cause that's so specific. I love when God gets just specific and fun like that, where you just laugh out loud. Like, are you for real? You just know he's laughing too. 

[00:35:06] Peter Warren: Yeah. And then there are times where it doesn't make sense and we don't get it, but there are enough times that are clear. And then sometimes, usually if people are getting different things, we go, okay, well, let's just begin praying for this and then this. But there are enough times when, probably because it's really on God's heart for us to pray for that specific thing that he, he gives this consensus or this, this, uh, unity in our, in our asking.

[00:35:36] Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. Well, and speaking of creative, God being creative, he speaks to us, I think, in really creative ways. And even just, I think of the times that he speaks so specifically to my heart or to somebody else's heart. And it's like, he speaks the specific language of your heart. Like sometimes he'll say something to you that would be so like dumb to somebody else or just weird, but it's so meaningful to you because he knows you. It's so intimate. 

[00:36:02] Peter Warren: Yes. I love that. Yeah, really true. I mean, God speaks to some people through songs and through, you know, people who have this dialectic type mind through mathematical type stuff. 

[00:36:14] Stephanie Gutierrez: Yes. Yes. 

[00:36:15] Peter Warren: True. He knows exactly who we are and the way that we're going to cherish what He says to us. 

[00:36:22] Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah, there's some people who just, they see God in math and in patterns and in the intricacy of what's in the world, or, you know, I think about my mother in law. She used to crack me up. She's, she would come in. She came in one day with a flower and it had you know, like four petals on it. And she's like, the Lord gave me this flower and he's speaking to me about my children.

This flower is Manny and this petal is Danny. I mean, she's just crying because the Lord has spoken to her so deeply through this flower. And to somebody else, you're like, Oh my gosh. But it's like, no, that was so intimate to her. Or it is the, the math person who's just like, Oh my gosh, I can't even believe all these patterns. Somebody else is like, that's so weird, but they get this revelation from God.

I love how personal and intimate the Lord is. It's it's he's just sweet. So for all the dry spells we have and frustrations we have, there's also so many beautiful moments if we'll open ourselves up to it.

[00:37:20] Peter Warren: How wonderful he is, huh? I mean, and we, we were, we were created that way with emotions in mind. I mean, Genesis 1:26 says God made us in his image. You know, what does that mean? I mean, because we're not all powerful, all knowing, all present, you know, we're not glorious. I mean, all I have to do is look in the mirror in the morning to know that, uh, I'm not that glorious.

What does it mean that God made us in his image? Well, I think it means he made us in his image and personality because those are the attributes we have that are like God. We have minds and he has a mind. He thinks thoughts. He reasons with us. You know, we have emotions and and God is an emotional God.

When you read through the scriptures, you see, you know, he, he has strong emotions and then God chooses and decides things. He has a free will. You know, he, he, he He didn't say we have to make man. He said, let's make man. And he made us like himself with, with these, with a personality. And he knows our personality and relates to us just on that level, like an adult.

You know, the other day, I was just speaking at a church in Florida over the weekend and, and met with the pastor and his, his son in law is, is like an assistant pastor and his son in law brought his little three year old daughter called Harvest. I walked in and Harvest hid behind her dad and I went down to her level, and I said Harvest, let me show you a photo of some of my grandkids. And my my youngest grandson is is Elisha and he's three and she's looking at the his picture and you know, I was able to talk to her by the end of the dinner She's chatting with me about stuff and it's like how God comes down to our level. He knows the way he made us our personality, and he relates to us in that way, and it's just, it's unbelievable, isn't it?

And, and this is knowing God. It's, it's not religion. It's not this perfunctory praying prayers by rote, and because if not, you know, God's going to be upset, or it's, it's a relationship, and how amazing is that?

[00:39:26] Stephanie Gutierrez: It is. It is. I can't think of a better way to have ended that today, Peter. Thank you. That was beautiful. And I would love to, on the subject of prayer, invite you to, to pray over all of our missionaries who are listening today. Would you close us out with prayer? 

[00:39:40] Peter Warren: It'd be my privilege. 

[00:39:42] Stephanie Gutierrez: Thank you. 

[00:39:43] Peter Warren: Heavenly Father, we come to you in the name of Jesus. Uh, we thank you that you don't always keep us from going through difficult circumstances. And Jesus, you were the ultimate missionary. You left, you left home, you left the comfort of heaven and the beauty and all of that to come to earth.

And I thank you for these men and women who are out there serving you throughout the world. As some of them have given up the conveniences of living in America or wherever they've come from to to not have a lot of things. And some of them are encountering persecution and difficulty and living like the people, maybe riding a bicycle rather than having a car or whatever it is they're doing.

Lord, thank you for these men and women who've chosen to follow in your footsteps, to to, to go to others, to lead them back to you, and would you be with them and minister to them and strengthen them today? Lord, strengthen them in their prayer lives. Uh, strengthen them in, uh, just their personal relationship with you and, uh, I, I want to pray that they would, for those who've been laboring without seeing much fruit here, because you do call some of us to go to the dry places and the places where there are thorn bushes and, and, and other ground that's not fertile.

Lord, would you encourage them? to be able to see some fruit here in these coming days. Stephanie and I agree upon this, that you would do this, Lord. And, uh, we, we want to bless them. Thank you for them. Bless them today. Uh, we pray in Jesus name. Amen. 

[00:41:27] Stephanie Gutierrez: Amen. Thank you so much, Peter. We appreciate you coming on today. 

[00:41:32] Peter Warren: My pleasure, Stephanie. Bless you. 

Thanks for joining us today, you can find all of our episodes on https://mdmpodcast.org/. Since 2008, Modern Day Missions has been providing financial administrative and marketing services to Christian missionaries around the globe. We're currently partnered with a thousand missionaries in more than 90 different nations. If you were someone you know, is looking for a nonprofit covering for your missionary calling modern day could be the answer you're looking for. 

Find out more at https://www.modernday.org/ . We look forward to seeing you on our next episode.