S06E07 How to Be the Healthy Leader of a Healthy Team with Nic & Rachael Billman

Do you ever struggle with knowing how to keep your team motivated? Especially when the work is hard, the stakes are high, and the pay is low (or non-existent)? How can you create a team culture of health from the top down?

In this episode, we sit down with Nic and Rachael Billman, founders of Shores of Grace. They have spent over 14 years leading missionaries and staff in Brazil. They open up about the challenges and rewards of managing complex teams, from balancing paid staff and volunteers to navigating the complexities of cross-cultural leadership.

You'll hear their practical tips on keeping teams unified, motivated, and healthy—plus some personal stories that are sure to resonate with anyone leading in ministry. Whether you're running a small team or a large ministry, this conversation will inspire you with fresh ideas for leading your team in an effective and healthy way.

✍️  In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How to keep your team motivated, even when life gets tough
• Simple ways to build unity across different cultures and personalities
• Practical ways to set a sustainable pace for your team’s long-term success
• Tips for handling conflict and keeping relationships healthy
• Why focusing on relationships and care makes all the difference in ministry

💡 Questions to Ponder as You Listen:

• What are a few ways we can help team members take ownership of their roles and responsibilities?
• How do we lead well when our team members have different expectations or backgrounds?
• What are some creative ways to motivate our team during tough seasons?
• How can we better support our team’s emotional health, especially in seasons of high stress?
• What steps can we take to foster deeper relationships and trust within our team?

Thanks for listening! Email us your questions at care@modernday.org

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Chapters

• 0:18 Meet Nic and Nic Billman: Founders of Shores of Grace
• 1:58 Understanding the Importance of Team Dynamics
• 5:59 Challenges of Leading Paid vs. Unpaid Staff
• 10:31 Motivating Your Team: Strategies and Insights
• 15:20 Fostering Fellowship and Community
• 17:26 Implementing a Missionary Care Program
• 23:47 Maintaining Leadership Health and Balance
• 26:15 Finding Rhythm in Life and Ministry
• 27:33 Intentional Marriage Practices
• 28:33 The Importance of Strong Counsel
• 31:19 Diverse Team Dynamics
• 41:39 Conflict Resolution Strategies
• 47:47 Final Thoughts

Transcript

[00:00:00] Stephanie Gutierrez: Welcome to Modern Day Missionaries, a podcast by Modern Day Missions created for missionaries, by missionaries. I'm your host, Stephanie Gutierrez. Do you ever struggle with knowing how to keep your team motivated? How can you create a team culture of health from the top down? Well, in this episode, we sit down with Nic and Rachael Billman, founders of Shores of Grace, and they've spent over 14 years leading missionaries and staff in Brazil.

And Nic and Rachael share how to lead teams that are unified, motivated, and healthy. Get ready for some fresh ideas for leading your team well.

Welcome to this episode of the Modern Day Missionaries podcast today. I'm thrilled to welcome Nic and Rachael Billman. Hey, welcome you guys.

[00:00:48] Nic & Rachael Billman: Hey, good to be here. We're excited to be with you today.

[00:00:52] Stephanie Gutierrez: excited to have you. It's going to be a good conversation talking teams today. So I want to let everybody know a little bit about you guys. You are the founders and directors of Shores of Grace Ministries. Headquartered in Recife, Brazil, and you've been there since 2010. So Shores of Grace serves in the areas of prevention, rescue, and restoration for individuals and families who've been harmed by prostitution, exploitation, abuse, and abandonment.

And currently Shores of Grace has a team of 130 people. Faithfully serving full time in the various projects of the ministry. And we're going to get into that more, but it's not just in Brazil. You guys have got people on more than one continent. And then in addition to working in missions, Nic and Rachael are musicians and have released 12 albums together.

And I got to hear some of your music and it was really beautiful and anointed. So 

[00:01:38] Nic & Rachael Billman: thank you. 

[00:01:38] Stephanie Gutierrez: Another fun aspect to you guys. You've been married, they've been married for 23 years. They have four children, two daughters in law, one grandson, and another grandbaby on the way. That is the hardest piece for me to believe because you guys look way too young to be grandparents.

I don't, I don't know how that works out.

[00:01:54] Nic & Rachael Billman: we'll write a book about that

[00:01:55] Stephanie Gutierrez: Okay.

All right. So you, so you gotta, you guys, if you want to know more, you got to dig in right there. 

So we're attacking team today with the Billmans because they manage a lot of people. And I know for all of you missionaries listening, you are working with teams. You are leading teams. Teams are a big part of what we do. And the relationship on those teams are critical. They can really make or break our success as missionaries.

When I say success, I just mean our fruitfulness, our ability to stay and to serve, our ability to enjoy what it is that we're doing. Uh, it's, we're going to be talking about that. To Nic and Rachael about how to set a healthy pace for your team, how to care for them, motivate them and all of that. But before we get into that, I'd love for you guys to kind of share that team context.

Um, what teams do you lead? How have you been leading them for, what do teams look like for the two of you?

[00:02:49] Nic & Rachael Billman: Yeah, so Shores of Grace has here in Recife, about 8 different kind of divisions of the ministry. So we have a cafe. That's a social cafe. So people that we've helped get off the streets or we've come through our rescue home or leave prostitution that's that work in the cafe. Now, we have a legal defense center and counseling center that is full of attorneys and. psychologists and social workers that are currently representing 250 cases of sexual abuse. We have a shelter for girls 24/7 that we've had over 190 children through. We have ministry on the streets to the homeless, a ministry on the streets of women in prostitution, schools that we do and trainings here, a ministry in the local poor communities.

So, so the team thing for us has changed a lot. You know, we've been here for almost 14 years. In the early days, it was like, you know, like most missionaries, we came here, we started this thing and people just kind of started coming. And so the early days, we all did everything. Everybody went together to do outreaches. And as it began to grow, we began to need to delegate more of the leadership of those teams. So we have leaders over every area of the ministry that we kind of lead the leaders who lead the people. 

We still have a lot of contact with all of our people, but, so our, our leadership of those teams is more of a broad view, strategic, you know, planning, and at the same time, making sure that the execution of those plans is happening in a healthy and sustainable way, um, making sure that the team is healthy, that the leaders are healthy, that their marriages and families are healthy. So, that's kind of where we're at. 

And then we also have a base in Philadelphia that my brother and his sister lead. His wife. Yeah, sorry. Lead for the ministry there. So there, for us, it's become very different, you know, in terms of like, and I don't want to get off, like, off to the races here, Stephanie, but like, you know, for me, it's like, I moved here thinking we're just going to go to the streets and like, love on people and that's it. And then all of a sudden things start growing and growing and growing, and I was like, losing my mind, just trying to keep it all together and everything was coming to me to Rachael. And, um, we had a friend come and he said, this was after things had grown quite a bit. And he said, you've been a good soldier, but a reluctant general. And if you don't get up on the horse and get out of the trenches, you're not going to be able to lead your people in the battle because you're always going to be just fighting the thing that's in front of you instead of really seeing. Like, where are we going and how do we get there? 

So we've kind of shifted with that and really began developing our leaders more. And so today that's what our team kind of concept looks like. And even within those teams, there's different teams. So, like, you know, we have very diverse teams. So we have, like, 60, 65 full time missionaries. And then we have like about the same number of people who are paid workers, local Brazilians that work for the ministry. So you have that dynamic too of like, there's paid workers who have times that they have to punch a clock and then you have missionaries working together. So it's, there's, there's all sorts of teams. We don't lack teams here. Let's put it that way.

[00:06:00] Stephanie Gutierrez: So I have so many questions, like, where do I even begin? Okay. But I want to tap into what you just said there about having paid people versus unpaid, which would be the missionary staff. What are some of the differences that you see between leading people who are paid national versus unpaid missionary?

[00:06:21] Nic & Rachael Billman: Yeah, so I think, you know, um, one of the biggest challenges of that dynamic is, you know, you're okay. We're a ministry and we have a very familial kind of culture as a ministry, but that doesn't mean that there are not responsibilities or things that need to get done. Um, and especially when you're working with with cases that involve the local court and, you know, the local authorities, like, things have deadlines and they can't be put off. Um, and so I think one of the challenges that we have with that is maintaining that familial kind of atmosphere and that care for one another while at the same time needing to sometimes, you know, be the one that's like, you need to get this done. Like, you haven't gotten it done. 

Um, and with the paid workers, what I find is that's more understood because they were hired for a job. There's a job description. They know what they're signing up for. Yes. Whereas with missionaries, oftentimes, you know, I won't say, yeah, I'll say oftentimes, I'll be real. Um, I think a lot of times missionaries have a hard time with seeing their mission work as a job. And yes, it is a calling. Um, and it is, you know, Um, what you're giving your life to, to serve Jesus, it's not a, you know, 40 hour work week, but in my opinion, you should treat that calling work even more, with more excellence than you did your job at an accounting firm or at McDonald's or wherever you worked before. And, you know, Paul says in Colossians, we should do everything unto the glory of the Lord, all that we do. 

But I think with the, for me as a leader, it's like people that are paid for a job, it's easier to kind of put them in motion and regulate and oversee what they're doing because they were hired for that task and they have these hours to complete that task. Whereas with missionaries, sometimes it's like, Well, yeah, but I don't, you know, I don't really feel like I'm supposed to do that or I didn't really feel that today or, you know, I was praying just didn't feel peace about it. And I think for us as leaders, you need to discern sometimes when that is in fact, like, maybe this is touching on an area of trauma, or maybe that person's like, reaching burnout and sometimes when you need as a leader to be like, Hey, let's pray through this, but we're gonna get up and do this thing, like we're gonna push forward. And that discernment is so important. 'cause it's not a, a, you know, a broad painted rule where it's just like always one or the other. So discerning that is important and the, the dynamic between the two is, is, is challenging sometimes. 

But I will say where, where our missionaries are of great help is, for example, if it's like three o'clock in the morning and I need someone at Bethany or girl's home to call in one of our employees at that time is gonna be more complicated. I'm going to pay overtime for her to come and work that time. Um, she probably can't work the next shift she was going to work. So then I need to figure out someone for that shift. But our missionaries, when we call them at three in the morning, wake them up and say, hey, we really need you at Bethany. They're going to go in a heartbeat and help and serve.

So, so I really see the blessing and the benefit of both. And we try to really make it important to both of our sides of the ministry. I don't even want to use the word sides, but both types of people that for missionaries say, this is a job. You're serving the Lord with your, your talents, your gifts, your calling, but also for our paid workers, you're a part of a mission and you're serving the Lord with your talents and your gifts and your calling. So you're not like any less missionary than the missionaries because you're a part of this mission and you're important to this mission.

[00:09:50] Stephanie Gutierrez: Thanks for being real about that and just going there about how things actually play out. And I'm sure there's a lot of people listening who are going, yeah, we see that too, because it's like with missionaries, it's almost like they're contractors in a sense, because they are totally a part of your team.They're there. And yet they have their churches back home and their need to fundraise. And so they've got more than one thing pulling on them. And so I'm sure that is a unique challenge that you guys have and, and recognizing the pros and cons of both of those. 

So then if we're talking about motivation, what are the different ways that you would motivate? Okay. What would be some things that you work well to motivate everybody on your teams? And what would be some unique ways perhaps that you motivate each one of those groups?

[00:10:39] Nic & Rachael Billman: I think first of all, for us, um, we really value relationship with whoever is coming on board because we realize, you know, Nic and I could continue just doing everything all on our own, but it's an incredible blessing when God is sending more people that, you know, see the vision or, you know, get excited about the vision. 

So, motivating them. I think first starts with forming great relationships with whoever is coming on board, whoever we're going to be leading, because there's going to be times that, you know, um, there's, there's going to be awesome times in the presence. We're going to see great victories, but there's also those times that you got to be like, come on, man, you got to do better than this. Like you, you need to pull it together. And if you don't have that foundation already set up of relationship that the person really feels loved. seen, valued, not for what they do, but for who they are. Uh, they might not receive that correction or redirection the same way that they would when they know that like, I'm listen, I'm, I'm in your court, like I'm with you, like we're, we're doing this together, but these are some areas that we need to talk about. 

So I think motivating them, constantly making the vision before them. You know, and pulling out the strengths in each one of them, you know, uh, it's, it's different, you know, we were talking about page staff versus missionaries. I think anyone listening right now will understand on the mission field. You kind of have who you have.

Yeah. Like when you, you just do, you get the ones that have just come out of high school and they're like, I'm in an off year and I don't know what to do with my life. So I'll go into the mission field, you know, and, or, um. You know, but when you're, you get a paid staff, you have the job description, you have the interview process, and you kind of know more or less what you're getting. But when you have a missionary that comes, they might not know what strengths they have or what giftings they have. And people come to the mission field for various reasons, sometimes, you know, especially working in rescue, and, and working with highly traumatic situations.

We have people that are drawn to those traumatic things because they've also gone through those traumatic things in their life. So learning through relationship, what drives them, um, what could potentially be something in their blind side that they're not, they're not going to see that's going to be a trigger for them, staying in that constant connection with them and, um, helping them focus on what, what's. like what the vision is. Yeah. 

And I think with that, like motivation, Stephanie, to us, the most important thing is motivating them based on who they are in Christ. So their value as a person. And to us, we tell our people all the time, and I believe and hope that we model it the best we can, that they are more important to us than what they do. And so, you know, motivating them first in their secret place with the Lord and their identity in the Lord, their time in his presence, their time in his word, them growing as sons and daughters of God. And then what they do here in the mission is the overflow of that place.

So, so I feel like we don't have to motivate so much like rah, rah, let's go and do this work. It's more like constantly motivating and encouraging them and exhorting them to just stay faithful to the Lord. It sounds very simple, but like, You know, we travel a lot and some of the driest people that I meet in the world are missionaries and missions leaders because they're so busy working that they forget their secret place. And we've been there. I've been there in the last couple of weeks. I've been there. Where you just get burned out from doing the job and you forget that, like, if I'm not plugged into the source, I've got nothing to give the people that we're reaching and serving. So, from our own experience, having gone through that, we really make that the primary thing.

So, like, our primary core value is intimacy with God and second dependency on the Father. And so that is our main motivation. And we find the more that people are doing that individually and together, Then when it's like, Hey, we really need to get this thing done over at the girl's home, or we really need help on the streets with this. It's not like I need to motivate them to go do it because they're just coming off of like fresh revelation from God. And that's where we get energized. And they're like, let's do it. Let's go. We're all for it. Let's go for it.

[00:15:06] Stephanie Gutierrez: So getting people to really prioritize their relationship with the Lord, receiving from him so they have something to get out. Rachael, you mentioned helping them feel seen and feel known. What are some of the other things that you do or tools that you use to help them feel seen to help them feel a part of the team?

[00:15:28] Nic & Rachael Billman: Yeah. Well, a big part of that, I think is fellowship. Um, you know, missions can be lonely and even in a, in a big, um, you know, team like Shores, you can still feel lonely and like. You know, when you talk to your family and friends back home, a lot of times they don't understand, like, really what you're living, they can't quite grasp it, or you might have family members that are not really for you even being there still, you know, maybe they're against the fact that you even left. 

Um, so I think that for us, fellowship is key, and we do that in terms of, like, spiritually, so we have weekly Bible studies in small groups for our staff, um, where I typically teach one Wednesday and the next Wednesday small groups. And we have a weekly worship service together on Monday nights. Then we have intercession times together.

Each ministry has their own intercession time, but then we also have just family fun days. So like days where we're going to do a barbecue together. And that also happens within the team. Like it's not all ministry organized. Sometimes just people doing that on their own. And I think when you do that, people feel more seen and valued because you're actually meeting the relational need. More than just kind of like, yeah, I can give you 10 minutes and I'll, I'll listen to what you have to say. Um, because when people want one on one time with us, I mean, Rachael and I’s schedule is full almost every day all day with those types of meetings. But actually, what they really need is, is this relationship this time together, not just to talk, but also to feel like they're a part of community, a part of family. So that's one of the big things that we do. 

And then we have a big open door policy between Rachael and I and our other leadership team members. That, like, we can talk at any time, obviously within, you know, schedules allowing, but we'll make time for you. And when there's a person that really just needs to get something off their chest, or they're frustrated, or they didn't understand, you know, something that we were doing. To really give them that space to talk it out and to. To help them come to a place of understanding, even if they don't still maybe agree. Understanding is the goal of those moments, so that help them understand. So I think those things are really important. 

Um, and then we also, we developed a team care program, a missionary care program, um, three, four years ago at this point, because what we found is that if you're an English speaker, there are plenty of, of, uh, ministries that provide that type of care, counseling for missionaries, but we couldn't find that anywhere for Portuguese speakers, and our staff is 85 percent Portuguese speaking. And so 85 percent of the ministry needs were coming to these two people right here all the time. And sometimes we're in the same like trauma that you're wanting to process. Sometimes it's something really nasty that we saw on the streets or something really difficult that happened with one of our girls at the house. And like, we can process with you, but we're bleeding out just like you are. 

And so we, we have a wonderful woman that is Brazilian, but lives in Texas. And. She's developed for us a missionary care program under the care of another institution that does that. And um, so now all of our missionaries have access to individual counseling sessions. Twice a year we do missionary care trainings here for the entire staff. Which is like teaching techniques that, of things that you can put into your routine. So that you can avoid burnout or paying attention to those signs and, you know, making play a regular part of your life. We don't do that anymore. Once we become adults, we feel like that's like, not, but that's a great way to bring healing is through play creativity. Yeah. 

And in that, you know, in the same way, what it's done is provided a really safe, it's all confidential. Like, um, we pay for those sessions, but she doesn't like report to us anything that's shared. Um, so people know it's confidential and what's cool is, is, for example, if, if someone had on our staff had a problem with me and Brazil is not a very confrontational culture, Brazil is a culture where confrontation is dishonoring and I come from Philly, city of Rocky Balboa, like, we're all about patient, um, because for us, confrontation is a love language, right? Like, if I love you, I'm going to confront something that I see that's harmful. Um, but anyway, if they had an issue with me, they can talk to her or one of the other team care counselors about the problem with me. They can counsel that person on how to then bring that to me to talk to me about it in a healthy way. 

And it's been amazing because people have come and been like, hey, maybe you didn't mean to, but you really offended me when you said this, or it hurt my feelings, or I didn't understand this when you changed my role. And then, having already been able to process that in a healthy environment, they feel heard twice because they were heard by a counselor, but then they're heard by their leaders saying like, please forgive us for that. That was not our intention. Thank you so much for having the courage to come and confront us on that. So, I think those are things that are important to us all the way from fellowship on to individual care and counsel to make sure that people are, are healthy. I mean, that they're whole, because, you know, healthy missions is sustainable missions.

And if it's not healthy, it doesn't matter how cool the testimony videos look on social media. It's not going to last if it's not healthy. Right? 

[00:20:44] Stephanie Gutierrez: That is so cool, you guys, because I'm just thinking too, that you're doing yourselves a favor as well, because think of all the times that people come to process through with their leaders. You know, stuff that's hurt them or stuff that's offended them and they don't know how to say it. And so then they just kind of either passive aggressively do it or blow up or who knows all kinds of ways or don't ever tell you and then go tell somebody else and it blows up later.

And that's the kind of stuff that is so painful for a leader. So the fact that they're able to go to a counselor and figure out what is a healthy way to communicate that actually helps you guys at the same time. Wow.

[00:21:18] Nic & Rachael Billman: Yeah. And what's cool is that, for example, in that talk, then, um, that counselor, you know, is, is trained, but she's also hearing from the Lord. So she might say, just throwing out an example, do you think this has anything to do with your relationship with your dad?

[00:21:33] Stephanie Gutierrez: Wow.

[00:21:34] Nic & Rachael Billman: then it goes deeper to also help that person.

Like I may have actually offended them and may need still to apologize, but that counselor is going to help them go to a deeper root of why do you think this exact moment bothered you so much? Like, is there something behind that, that God wants to bring up and heal through this moment? And so it's been, it's been a really amazing thing.

Um, then when, when they come to us, because they've already been processing this with the therapist, they'll come and they might, and they'll say, you know, like you, I was really offended when, you know, and they'll share what that is, but. then what we're hearing now is, and this is what I've been doing for my own personal healing because I realized and that, that this is something that goes way back.

Like this offense that I've had, it's not just with you, it's actually with another leader too. Like I've had other pastors in my life, other authorities in my life that were abusive or, You know, uh, didn't see me, didn't value me, didn't give me a voice. And so I started to see you like that, you know, so it's nice when we sit down with them, they've already processed some of those emotions and are already able to identify some unhealthy patterns that they have. And so that conversation when we have with them is really just resolution, like, would you please forgive us? Like, that was not our intention, and I'm going to be careful when I talk about this, you know, um, yeah, so. 

And I think any, any leader listening to this knows that like one of the biggest burdens for a leader is you constantly feel like you don't have enough time for everybody who's serving. And so for us, it was amazing to develop this program and we invested in it. I mean, as a ministry, we invested time, resources, finances, but it's been amazing that when someone's like, I really need to talk and I know that I just can't that week that I can say, but there is this place available for you to talk and to open up your heart and you and I can schedule time when my schedule allows. So it's been really good. And I think for us, we learned that cause Rachael and I didn't have that, that person, like most of our counsel came from pastors, amazing pastors, but they'd never lived like what we live in missions and high trauma environments. So sometimes we'd call them and they'd be like, man, I mean, I'm praying for you. Yeah. And you'd kind of be like, right. But like, what do I do?

Like, what am I supposed to do? You know?

[00:23:55] Stephanie Gutierrez: Wow. So as leaders then, what are things that you do to keep yourselves healthy so that you're, you can lead well?

[00:24:03] Nic & Rachael Billman: Man, we have to model it first, right? Like if we're going to. require something of our people that we're leading. They need to see it in our life. They need to see it, uh, you know, see us walking through those things. 

So we try to be very vulnerable with our people too, you know, not sharing all the details of life, but when we are going through a hard time, it's good for them to know that leaders also go through hard times. We also have our moments that we're like, man, I need to get my priorities right. Or, you know, my, I'm, I'm dealing with some PTSD stuff, like. Uh, you know, whatever, whatever that is, or guys, this is what unhealthy looks like. This is, I am modeling for you what not to do and I'm going to get on this and here's what I'm going to do. But teaching through each of those, those times of life. 

Yeah. And I think for us, you know, um, you know, and we're certainly not there. Like this is something where we're learning. Both Rachael and I are really intense. And so. When we first started Shores, it was like, go, go, go, go, go all the time. And we didn't take like a real break that wasn't, um, fundraising or ministry here for like the first seven years we were on the ground. And we would never like recommend that to any of our people today. 

Um, but it's almost like, you know, not almost, it is God uses even our failings to teach us, 8, 28, he makes all things work for the good. So I think he kind of allowed us to go through some of that unhealthiness to then see, like, you need to change this, not just for you, but for the people who are coming to serve under you. 

And so, for us, like, making family the priority, like, our marriage being the priority, you know, like, we've been on a readjustment, like, we don't mind being vulnerable here on this podcast, but this year, realizing we kind of got off that again, because we were running, running, running, pulled in so many different directions. Not just with ministry, but with having adult children that are married and have kids and like all these different dynamics where we had hit a wall a few months ago. And we're like, wait a second, we've kind of gotten off like prioritizing us again in our marriage. And we need to get back to investing that intimacy.

So I think that this is like a, a, constant rhythm of life. And that's the word like we like to use as rhythm more than balance because I don't have to balance my marriage and my ministry. Like, they're not in competition of which way is more. or how to make an even, but it's about the rhythm first with the Lord of like, how are we, are we running today?

Or is today, you know, like, like Psalms 23 today, Lord, are you leading me through the, uh, the, uh, community just, she said the right paths, the paths of righteousness. Sorry, I forgot the words in English. Um, are we like running through the paths of righteousness or is this the day you're taking me to the green pastures to lay down by still waters? Or is today where we're walking through like the valley of the shadow of death and we kind of need to truck it through there? Or are you like taking me to a place of resting at your table that you prepared for me? So I think like those rhythms and the same in marriage and in family is really important.

So like with our people, If we see that they're not well, we will tell them, like, you do not have to do that task today, or that outreach can wait, or this thing that we have to do, we'll put it off, or we're going to find some other people to do it, because we want to model for them that healthiness and show them that we really do value them more than what they do, and for us as a family and as a, as a couple, it's like a daily check in on that.

So, like, right now we're doing, like, this marriage journal. Every night where we ask each other a question and process with one with each other, like something about the day. And so those things of like intent, having intentional, you know, key moments where it's like we're checking those rhythms too, right?

Right. Not just that we're together and we went on a date, but are we actually, like, how is our rhythm today? And like, am I like running way ahead and you're kind of back? Or are we, are we in in step together? And modeling that to our people I think is super important for them to see that and know, for example, like we're gonna take December off. We used to never take times off like that, but modeling to them like this is the rhythm of rest. 

Like the first day of man was a day of rest, right? Adam was created on the sixth day. His first full day, day seven, was Sabbath. Vacation. And like so much of our, especially American mindset, is we work to get to rest and vacation. But the biblical model is we work from rest. We work from his presence, not to his presence. To rest and right, you know, I think one of the other things going back to your question we 

We've learned over the years that we need strong counsel in our life people that are completely outside of the mission field that are seasoned in walking with the Lord. They don't even have to be pastors or counselors, but people that are seasoned walking with the Lord that know how to tell us No. 

Yeah because there's a lot of yes people out there that, you know, they'll hear what we're doing and they'll get excited, but we really value the no in our life just as much as we do the yes. Because like Nic said, we are both very intense. So we might get it in our heart that we're like, we need to open, you know, a dog rescue or something, you know, out of the box like that. And having people in our life that are going to speak wisdom, that are going to really dig in a little deeper and be like, how's your time with the Lord been? You know, like it's really cool. You guys had these these awesome testimonies this week But like how is your personal time and what are you doing? Like what's your daily devotional look like? What do you think you could add to that that might, you know, really really fill you for the journey? 

You know, so I think that's another key is like being people in your life that are yes sayers and the no sayers and to be able to weigh that with the Lord, you know, um, is so, so important.

[00:30:16] Stephanie Gutierrez: Oh, absolutely. And it's, it can be hard to find those kinds of people who know how to say no. Well, cause there's people who are just like rude. And then there's people who always say yes. And they're just natural encouragers. But when you can find somebody who's able to kind of fit that middle balance where they, they encourage you, they speak life into you.

And they also are like, what you doing? Cause that's crazy. And I love you. And that's crazy. Unless God told you in writing on a wall, that's a terrible idea. I don't know about you guys. That's kind of refreshing to me. I actually love having super raw people in my life. I know for some personalities, maybe that's not something they enjoy, but it makes me feel safe when there are people like that in my life.

[00:30:56] Nic & Rachael Billman: Yeah, us too. Mm-Hmm. And we have some people like that on staff. I mean, we have some people that, you know, are, are under our leadership, but have the courage and, and you know, the discernment and wisdom to be like, Hey, this sounds like a great idea. I don't think we're staffed for that. Yeah. Maybe in five years, 10 years we can talk about it and like, and that's good because we'll get like all excited and you know, and we should hear from the Lord and be like, oh, let's do it. But you need people who help you see the timeline of that thing God just showed you, not just like, do it all right now, you know?

[00:31:28] Stephanie Gutierrez: Absolutely. Because we all have such different personalities. You know, I was in a call with Patrick Lencioni the other day. Uh, just a group of us were getting together and talking about this, he has a new book that came out that talks about the working genius and the six types of personalities. And he was really talking about how much we need all of those different types of personalities on a team to be able to make things happen. 

And if you've got people who are only ideators and they're plowing through and they're going and there's not question askers going, hold on just a minute. Can we pause? What needs to happen? But then you also need the people who are like, I am here to help you fulfill that vision. You need the support of people. You need all these kinds of voices. 

And when a team is heavily swayed one way or the other, that's when chaos can ensue or things can get stuck. And so. I love what you guys are saying because you're looking for what you don't have and making sure that those voices have a place in your life to bring those questions that you might not think of because maybe you're just not wired to do them.

Or, you know, as missionaries too, we can get so close to something. It's just right there in our face and you need somebody who has that big picture view, whether it's somebody from a staff, like you said, it was that staff perspective or an overseer type person or a friend or, um, Yeah. 

How have you guys been able to find some of those voices in your lives?

[00:32:54] Nic & Rachael Billman: Well, first of all, like both of our parents are amazing people. Um, they both, my dad's still a Methodist pastor. Rachael's parents have retired, but they both, they both been in ministry there like their entire lives basically. Um, and our parents were friends before we were born. So we've been friends our whole life and always had them as just amazing counsel to us. 

But there's also like limitations to your parents being your counsel. Um, you know, because they're your parents. So they're going to give you a wide counsel, but they're still also going to think about like your wellbeing, their grandkids wellbeing. Um, and so we've, we've just over the years connected with people that have been pastors or just like Rachael said, people who just walk faithfully with the Lord that really, we feel like God has just brought his like presence into our lives. But we, we are intentional at seeking counsel from people, especially people older than us. People have gone before us, you know, not so much older age, but like an experience with the Lord. Um, so like that, the famous question, you know, what would you have done differently when you were our age type thing?

We love those types of questions when we're sitting with people who have been like in the presence of the Lord for a long time or been on the mission field for a long time. So we just kind of do that. And then I think there's a natural growth to relationship when you can feel like, this person is, is going to be more in our life than just this one conversation and then asking that person, you know, would you be open to us, you know, calling from, from time to time, having these times to seek counsel and then same thing on the side of intercession and prayer, like, having people specifically praying for us for our ministry, for our family that are more than just like, Hey, praying for you, prayer hand emoji, but people who are like, really going to like, intentionally pray. And then send messages like, here's what I saw when I was praying. Here's a passage the Lord brought from the Bible. So in the same way with counselors, it's kind of just seeking that intentionally. Um, and humbling yourself to, to ask those questions. 

And to sometimes be like, we really kind of don't know what to do. Like we're in a bit of a predicament here. And we would really like to get some counsel on the situation we're facing. You know, whatever it may be, internally or externally in the ministry.

[00:35:07] Stephanie Gutierrez: Hmm. That's huge. It makes such a difference. I want to go back for a second to something we were talking about a little bit earlier. I don't want to forget it. And we, we started kind of talking about the two different types of groups that you guys are over with teams, the missionary group, and then the, uh, the missionaries. Brazilian people that you're working with. Yeah. Paid staff. How do you bring those two groups together? Bring unity among the staff? So, I mean, there's, they each have their separate set of needs. And so you guys are recognizing that and addressing them, but then how do you cultivate that sense of whole team rather than the English speakers and the Portuguese speakers?

What does that look like?

[00:35:49] Nic & Rachael Billman: Yeah, it's a challenge. You know, um, it's a challenge. I would say more because like, like I said, like, 85 percent of our staff is Brazilian. So we have, you know, a number of Brazilians that are full time missionaries. Then we have the Brazilians who are paid nationals. Um, and one of the biggest challenges is that most of our local. Like paid staff have like local churches, which is great. You know, they're involved in a local church. They have family because they live here. They didn't, in other words, they didn't move here to serve at Shores. They already live here. So, the dynamic is way different. Like, for example, if you come as a missionary, there's things we expect you to be at, like Bible, Bible study.

We expect you to be at our weekly worship gathering. Like there are things, staff meetings, but like, if you live here and you work at one of the different projects at Shores, I'm not going to require you to come to Bible study when you're, you should be a Bible study at your local church. You know what I mean?

So, and to be honest, Stephanie, it's like something we didn't really even think about until it happened. And all of a sudden you're like, Oh yeah, like you, you kind of like work here, but you have like a life outside of here in a local church and like you're involved in the community. So it's a challenging dynamic. 

But I think that the key, what unites, what should unite any team is your mission, your vision and your core values. And so for us, the mission and the vision and our core values are what bring everybody together. So, whether you're a paid worker that comes and goes, you work 8 hours a day, or our caretakers work 12 hour shifts at the girl's home, or you're an attorney that works 20 hours a week, um, or you're a missionary, what unites us is the fact that we're all here working to see this mission and this vision happen.

And we do that by living out our core values. So we're, we are a people who talk about our core values constantly every day. And anytime we're together as a team, we're bringing our core values back, even more so than the mission and vision, because the core values are like who we are and how we are going to fulfill that vision, vision and mission. 

Um, and so I think that unites the people because even the people who are just working at Shores. They could be working somewhere else and making a lot more money. Like it's not like they're like banking tons of salary working at a mission. Um, but they're here cause they believe in the mission and the vision. And we see it as we are their primary supporter. So we're their main partner. So they're working in missions and rather than doing a bunch of fundraising, they found one partner who's paying them monthly to do what they're called to do. So. So we try not to make a big deal about like the separation of things, um, and really everybody kind of knowing their role and understanding their role within that vision and mission, living out those values kind of brings that unity.

[00:38:42] Stephanie Gutierrez: That's so good. And I love that you guys pointed out too, that your missionary staff, I don't know if everybody caught that, but your missionary staff is not just Americans or English speakers, you know, it goes back to just old ways of thinking, or we just sometimes forget, we think of her from the States and Oh, all the missionaries are from the States when there are missionaries coming from all over the world to all over the world.

So you guys on your missionary staff have English speakers, Portuguese speakers, so Americans, Brazilians, are there any other nationalities represented on your staff?

[00:39:13] Nic & Rachael Billman: Yeah, right now we have people from Finland, from Australia, um, from the U. S. I think right now. Ireland. Oh, Ireland. Um, yeah, that's right. And, and then in the past, we've had people from all over, like we've had people from multiple nations, um, from South Korea, from Singapore, from kind of all over the place.

So, so, and that's another thing you're talking about team dynamics is like, it's like the cultural differences from one culture to another. Wow. I mean, like Brazil is that kind of like, you know, if you lived in Lima, you would understand that South American, like Like, tranquilo, everything's fine. Like, we're going to work it out. And then we have like Europeans who are like, this needs to be done like yesterday. And I feel like Americans are somewhere in the middle. Like we're uptight too, but not like so uptight. Like maybe some of our European brothers. So we have all these dynamics. 

And I think talking about uniting, it has to be about kingdom culture because Like, when we would talk sometimes to our Brazilians, for example, about punctuality, being on time. You know, they'd be like, well, you Americans are so uptight. And we'd be like, well, let's look at this, because the Bible says, let your yes be yes and your no be no. So if you said that you'd be here at 10 to help with this project, and you showed up at 11, you were actually dishonest in your timing. And that's not about America versus Brazil, that's about kingdom principles. So, like, I think it's a beautiful thing in multi ethnic settings that we can, we can take from every culture the good and the good and the beautiful and bring it together, but we can also point out, even in our own culture, like, Lord knows there's a long list in American culture that's not good, that we can say, hey, that's, that's not kingdom.

So, what's going to unite us is the kingdom expressions within the different cultures and how do we bring that together and celebrate it? But also not be offended when we call something out that culturally is not up to kingdom standards.

[00:41:22] Stephanie Gutierrez: Absolutely. And I love that you guys are just living in the complexity of that and the beauty of that. Like you said, gaining all of the beauty that each culture has to offer and also going, Oh wow. I didn't realize that's how things are done there. And that's really different than one of your other teammates and how they do things.

So I mean, I would just even imagine the conflict resolution piece and helping everybody understand each other and not be offended by different things. That's got to be a big piece of team dynamics as well. How do you handle conflict resolution within your team? 

[00:42:00] Nic & Rachael Billman: We do follow, I mean, this has taken a long time to crack, to try to create the momentum of how we handle conflict resolution. Um, we're still emerging in this. I don't think any mission group has arrived. and is great at this. I think everybody can agree. Um, but, uh, you know, we followed the biblical standard of like, if somebody offends you, go to that person. 

So that's a big thing because especially here, Nic touched on this a little bit with Brazilian culture, it would be very rude to approach…if I approached Nic and said, you offended me, or, you know, that I didn't like what you said. but it is not offensive if I go to somebody else and say, Nic offended me, you know? 

So where we realize where we need to cut it off is that person, that first person they're going to come in contact with. needs to ask the question, well, have you told them that? Have you talked to them? Do you think that was their intention? Because maybe they don't know, like, we talked about the cultural differences. Maybe that's not offensive in their culture, you know, and they don't know that they're offending and that wouldn't want to be, you know, they wouldn't want to. So go directly to that person. And teaching them how to have conversations, uh, you know, being able to express an area of hurt, an area of of offense without it being you said this and every time you, you know, but working through, you know, I don't know if you realized, but when you said this to me, this is what I heard.

Was that your intention? And I, I value you and I can feel that there's a tension here and I'm not sure what it is, but I was wondering if we could just kind of schedule time to talk about that. Because I, I don't want that. Like, I love you. I love who you are and I don't want there to be that, but there are those moments that you've had that conversation and it didn't go so well, or you thought it went well.

And then after they're together again, and it's still not working out. And then we have to sit down, you know, call in a member of leadership to kind of help mediate the conversation and be the middle ground in trying to bring the resolution between the two. Um, that also involves some follow up. You know, meeting individually with those people, and maybe together if it's needed again, but meeting individually and being, you know, how has that been since we, since you had that conversation?

What have you done? you know, to, to try to move, move forward in this, in this relationship, in this friendship. What hasn't gone very well? What do you think you can do about it? You know, constantly putting it back in their hands of, you know, what, a lot of times when somebody comes and says, I was offended because this person said this, What they're saying to the leader is, I want you to go and talk to that person. So we're constantly trying to put the ball back in their hands and say, what do you think you need to do? What do you think, you know, scripture tells you that you need to do right now with that piece of information that you have? Yeah. And really it is about relationships. So it's like, you know, I think in our, in the world today in general, it's like disagreement means disunity, but that's not true.

You know, like we can disagree over. the way to do something or a decision that was made, but still be united and value each other as people and so for us, we try to bring it back to that relationship of, okay, there is something causing a conflict, but there is still these two people who love each other and are united in the love of God. So let's, let's start with that. 

And then also a really good friend of mine who's a counselor. Um, you know, taught me this dynamic of flattening the triangle. So it's like when someone comes to you, you're the authority, both sides are wanting you to kind of determine who's right and who's wrong, like Solomon with the two women, uh, and the baby. But what we need to do is this and mediate those two points. So I'm not the authority, like the end all voice that's going to say, okay, you're guilty, you're, you're innocent, but we're going to flatten it. I'm going to help mediate the conversation. But even our team care program helps with that because for example, They can talk to a counselor and process through like what's causing this conflict and how they can healthily confront that person. 

For us, the big thing is like, rather than coming with a list of evidence and complaints, come with good questions. You know, how have you been experiencing our relationship lately? Like, how have you been experiencing my work with you? I feel like there's a tension. Is there something you feel is causing a tension between us? Um, I feel like you've been distant with me. So bringing questions that also are vulnerable and difficult questions to ask because like for our leaders, we'll tell them if you have the courage to ask your staff, you know, any staff member, how are you experiencing my leadership? You have to have the courage to hear it

[00:47:05] Stephanie Gutierrez: That's the truth.

[00:47:06] Nic & Rachael Billman: Right. And they might say, not very good. Like, you know, you've been really offending me and I'm upset and, but you need to have the courage to hear that. And you might say, I'm not ready to answer, answer those questions today, but I would like to pray into that, you know, give some time, um, our staff always jokes that my answer to everything is I'll pray about it, but it's honestly like, one, I am going to pray about everything, but two, it gives me time to not feel like I need to answer, like, and solve something right then, and I'm going to pray into it, but it also gives that person time. 

And many times, the next day, they're like, you know what, I really thought about that more. And it was just me being silly like that. I don't need to have this talk with that person. So I think the relational part is important and bringing people back to a place of valuing that person despite the offense or the frustration or whatever it might be causing that conflict, you know,

[00:48:03] Stephanie Gutierrez: You know, one thing I love about you guys is that you don't shy away from complexity, whether it be through the people and the families that you serve, you know, I've mean, coming out of prostitution and exploitation.

[00:48:12] Nic & Rachael Billman: We run right into it!

[00:48:13] Stephanie Gutierrez: You do. And then the complexities of the team. I mean, you aren't, you are opening it up to all these different cultures to come in and, and having nationals and internationals and putting it all together.

And you guys are willing to wade into the complexity. And so thank you for doing what you do. And then thanks for taking the time to share that today. I'm hoping it's really an inspiration for people like, okay, if the Billman’s can do it in this context, that is. So wild, like, Lord, you can help me as well.

And I don't mean that as a comparison thing. We're all called to do different things in different ways. Comparing is the worst thing a missionary could possibly do or a person, but I can be inspired by somebody and I can say, all right, Lord, maybe I can do this. Maybe it's not as complex as I think.

And so that's, that is my hope that you guys shared such great things today. I really think that there's, there is at least, you know, one nugget, if not many more that everybody can take and use it in their own teams to say, all right, how could I do conflict different? How could I work to bring unity to my team?

What is the thing that's going to bring us together? So, so much. So thank you guys for coming on. We are proud to have you as Modern Day missionaries.

[00:49:26] Nic & Rachael Billman: We are, we are proud to be partnered with Modern Day. You know, we were, I don't know what number we were, but we were somewhere in like teens or maybe even single digits for missionaries at Modern Day. And we love the whole Modern Day crew and are just so grateful for what, what God's done to grow Modern Day and influence and to bless, not just missionaries over the, over the nations, but the people that those missionaries are reaching. That's the exciting thing.

[00:49:49] Stephanie Gutierrez: It really is. It really is. Well, again, thank you for what you do. Thank you for coming on today. We appreciate you guys. And everybody else, we look forward to seeing you on our next episode.